Masterclass: Discussing Maestra with Maggie Contreras
Once upon a time, to be the conductor of an orchestra was to be a man. No longer. Female conductors, however, are still very much a rarity. The Paris based La Maestra Competition aims to break down the barriers that women still face in becoming conductors by giving them a space to showcase their skills.
In Maestra, Maggie Contreras follows five women as they prepare to take part in the 2022 La Maestra Competition. Among them are Mélisse, a Parisian from Iowa, Zoe, a single mother who juggles her preparation with looking after her young twins, and Ustina, a Ukrainian whose country was invaded by Russia just a week before La Maestra started.
Maggie joins Matthew Sherwood to discuss these women and more: the physicality of being a conductor, the loneliness of preparation, and extreme limits of time that the women have in competition with their orchestra.
Maggie explains why she chose Maestra’s unlikely opening scene, how she ensured that the film would be accessible to viewers with no experience of conducting, and how her own background as an actor helped her to direct the film.
As with all films, Maestra could not have been made without its financial backers. These include David Letterman’s Worldwide Pants production company, and Jamie Wolf’s Foothill Productions. Maggie reflects on their contribution as well as that of the Northern Irish companies that handled the film’s editing.
Maggie takes Matthew back to her own musical childhood before discussing the challenge of making Maestra, both in the shadow of Covid and by being an outsider in Paris. Together, she and Matthew look at the bond that draws her diverse range of films together. It’s all about making them entertaining.
“... you always have to have an idea of what it is you're getting into, but then the magic and joy and fun and danger is you take a step back and let it blossom into what it needs to be.” – Maggie Contreras
Time Stamps
00:00 – Matthew Sherwood introduces this week’s guest, Maggie Contreras, and her film, Maestra
02:22 – Maggie gives a brief outline of what Maestra is about
03:16 – The scarcity of female conductors in the music world
04:19 – The physicality of conducting
04:54 – Loneliness and Limited Time: preparing for and taking part in competition
07:06 – Maestra’s opening scream
10:26 – ‘Classical Music’: a problematic term and male-centric orchestras
12:41 – Playing with soundscapes
14:53 – The ultra-competitive nature of the conducting world
16:38 – Maggie discusses some of the women who feature in Maestra
19:40 – How Maggie narrowed down the list of women she follows in Maestra
25:02 – How Maggie met the challenge of making Maestra accessible to the general viewer and music’s subjectivity
30:06 – Competition or Showcase? Maggie explains her preference for the latter
31:59 – Maggie discusses how she became involved with Maestra
35:45 – From producer to director via a music infused childhood
38:46 – Shout outs and helping stress with Larry David
39:30 – Discussing Tar, Maestro and The Conductor
40:52 – David Letterman’s role in the financing of Maestra
42:17 – How Maggie’s acting background helped her in the making of Maestra
46:41 – What’s next for Maggie
47:37 – What bond ties Maggie’s diverse range of films together
48:58 – From Hollywood to Holywood: Northern Ireland’s role in the making of Maestra
Resources:
Maestra
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Maggie Contreras
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 137: Masterclass: Discussing Maestra with Maggie Contreras
Matthew Sherwood 00:03 (00:04)
This is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary, and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. Maestra follows five women from across the globe as they prepare to perform at La Maestra, the only competition in the world solely for female orchestra conductors. Join us as we talk with Maggie Contreras about the challenges facing female conductors, and how Maggie's background as an actor helped her to create a poignant intimacy with her subjects. Stay tuned.
Matthew Sherwood 00:35
Maggie Contreras, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Maggie Contreras 00:39
Great. Thank you. Getting ready for Tribeca here in a couple days, so very excited.
Matthew Sherwood 00:44
Yes, congratulations. Just to remind our listeners and viewers, we are talking about the new feature documentary Maestra. It is premiering at Tribeca on June 9. We're embargoed till then. The first you'll hear this podcast probably about a few days after that. So, welcome again, Maggie, and congratulations to making Tribeca. I mean, how does it feel? I mean, if I understand correctly, this is your - not only are you premiering, but this is your directorial debut, is that correct?
Maggie Contreras 01:16
Yes, I am a documentary producer. Have been for quite some time. But yes, this is my first time helming.
Matthew Sherwood 01:24
So, not bad. First time and you're at Tribeca. So...
Maggie Contreras 01:27
Very good!
Matthew Sherwood 01:29
You're doing all right!
Maggie Contreras 01:32
I am happy about our ratio here, so far, yes. Decent batting average.
Matthew Sherwood 01:38
And we have to say it, we're really digging the hat and everything. So, you're our - I believe, except for maybe the odd baseball cap - I'm sure you're the first guest to really be rocking a hat on the show.
Maggie Contreras 01:52
I think we both need hat sponsors, Matthew.
Matthew Sherwood 01:55
Yes, I think we're gonna - that's what you're obviously aiming for, and now I'm realising that's what I've been missing, so, that's what we're gonna go for. But we don't need to talk about hats. Let's talk about Maestra. What is - how we usually start off the show - what is Maestra about? Maybe you can give us a bit of a synopsis, especially since most of our - I doubt very - only a few of our listeners or viewers will have seen it, if they been lucky enough to get to Tribeca.
Maggie Contreras 02:22 (02:22)
So, Maestra is a feature documentary following a group of women from around the world who are all competing in the only competition for female orchestra conductors. So, it's a follow documentary of five women with a very unique job, who are inhabiting the space that has traditionally - a role that has traditionally been held by men. And this competition takes place in Paris, at the Paris Philharmonic, and it happens every two years. It's new. So, in 2020, during the height of the pandemic, that was its first year, and we follow the second iteration of the competition.
Matthew Sherwood 03:10 (03:16)
Okay. And as you say, well to - well, I mean, female conductors are not as uncommon as they used to be. I mean, we have Marin Alsop, who's in your doc, and others, but they still face many challenges, which your film does capture quite well.
Maggie Contreras 03:31
Yeah. When Marin left Baltimore - and when she left that post she held for a very long time - at that time, she was the only woman at a major American orchestra, and when she left there were zero. And thankfully, we have Natalie, down in Atlanta. So, now we have one again.
Matthew Sherwood 03:51
Right.
Maggie Contreras 03:52
And at the moment, as we're speaking, the LA Phil is looking for a replacement for Gustavo Dudamel, and we're crossing our fingers that we can add a second woman to the podium in the United States.
Matthew Sherwood 04:07
Well, well, excellent. I think that's a - it's great because as your film shows, I mean, well, I'm getting ahead of myself, but the performances are absolutely amazing in this, I found.
Maggie Contreras 04:19 (04:19)
Yeah, conducting is incredibly athletic.
Matthew Sherwood 04:22
Yeah.
Maggie Contreras 04:23 (04:54)
They come offstage drenched in sweat. So, they're musicians. They're so kinetic with their bodies, it's almost like dancing and acting, and it's all put together with this incredible music. It's fascinating to watch. One of my favourite parts about making the documentary was watching how they prepare. It's very solo work. It's very... it's - no one has ever used the word lonely, but it's an art form that is quite lonely until you're with a group of musicians. All of the preparation that takes place, the months of preparation that takes place to study and memorise a score - and we can get into what they're actually doing, which is interpretation - it's all happening in their imagination. They're sitting there, and what you're seeing if you're with a conductor, watching them rehearse, is they're in a quiet room alone, and they're reading the score, and they almost sing the notes, [Sings] bm, a bm, bm, bm, bm. You know, they're articulating the notes, and they're visualising where each part of the - each section is in the orchestra. And it's almost akin to a professional athlete, how they think about - they think about that basket, they think about that pitch, they think about that winning touchdown, and it's muscle memory, and they go over and over and over and over it. And that is the majority of the work. And then you get in your - I don't know, I think they don't get very long to rehearse with an orchestra in a professional setting, much less a competition where you have, like, ten minutes, or something, to rehearse with your orchestra. It's a very, very short amount of time, before you're able to actually put all that work into action.
Matthew Sherwood 06:34
I mean, I think - so, I mean, obviously, what a challenge for a filmmaker, right? Because, I mean, more than - at least one or two of them says, well, it's okay, because whatever about their work environment, or whatever, is that they can just do it all in their head. So, how you capture that, but I love how you open the film, because you're talking about that physicality again, with - I think it's - is it Mélisse Brunet - that was an incredible beginning to the film, I thought.
Maggie Contreras 07:03 (07:06)
Yeah, that reminded me how - so, for people who haven't seen the film, the film opens with a scream, a really primal scream in the dark. And I want - people are going to have this preconceived notion of what a documentary about orchestra conductors is going to be. I would. I mean, of course we're going to judge what that's going to be, and I just wanted to knock that stereotype, whatever people are thinking, I wanted the first, their first reaction to the film to be like 'Whoa, I wasn't expecting that'. So, the film opens in the dark with a scream. And what it is, is, it's Mélisse, one of our five contestants that we're following, working with one of her university students, one-on-one. And she works with her in a very unique way; really, really special way trying to get the - their instrument is their body and the entire orchestra. So, in order for the music to be reflected, and be brought through their body, through their gesture, your body has to be supple and has to be receptive, and you have to be loose and you can't be judging, oh, how do I feel on the podium? What do I look like? Like, and I remember this. My background is theatre. I'm a product of theatre training. And watching Mélisse work with her student reminded me of how one of my most inspiring tutors worked with me, with our class of - really just, you have to get your body into, like, this neutral space so that you can utilise it to the best of your ability as an artist because it is your expression. So, if there's any tension, if there's any doubting yourself, if you're in your head at all, and you're tight in your body, you can't fully express the music with your body; it's - so, it was a really - I loved watching her work with her student.
Matthew Sherwood 09:17
Yeah, no, I think - no, no, I was just going - no, I was just gonna say, I completely agree. I think - I mean, I should also say, I even made a note, I should say something about spoiler alerts; so, because it is about a competition, and you follow these people, we won't - I will not ask you questions to try to give away certain things about - but so, maybe the first spoiler's that you now will know if you haven't seen this yet, it does start with a scream but I think it gives you a flavour for the type of film this is, and you're talking about that physicality because even that whole scene she even makes reference to, you know, her male instructors at the conservatory, or whatever, told her not to do it that way, right, about how to dress, and they all face this that, yes, you have to put all your soul and body into it, but then they turn around and they get feedback even during the competition about, well, you didn't smile enough or you put too much into it, you know, it's a real challenge for these women.
Maggie Contreras 10:20 (10:26)
It is. There's a couple of things to break down there. So, historically, this music - the term 'classical music' is problematic for me, but, like, that's a whole other episode of your podcast of, like, what does 'classical music' mean? Well, it depends upon what culture you're talking about. There's classical music in different cultures. We're talking about Western classical music, which was generally composed by white western men, because the people paying for it were people in the courts, who were commissioning these pieces. So, even the musicians. So, it's pretty well known that the Vienna Philharmonic didn't even have a female player until 1997. 1997 the first woman was brought into the orchestra, a harpist. So, yes, you have women who are stepping into these spaces that have a very strong stereotype attached to them. If you were to draw a cartoon character, there's many cartoon characters of conductors out there...
Matthew Sherwood 11:42
I can think of a few.
Maggie Contreras 11:43 (12:41)
... exactly. They're either rabbits, mice, a very famous mouse, a very famous rabbit. Or they're sort of portly, white men with floppy hair flying all over the place. And there's a sense of authoritarianism and instead of inspiring and nurturing trust from the musicians, it's more of a command. And so, not only are women having to step into these roles, but they're also having to break down the stereotype of okay, what does leadership look like? What does sort of taking charge of an orchestra look like? You - going back, you were talking about the physicality and how a lot of this preparation is in their heads. And one thing I loved and had an intention for from the beginning, was playing with soundscapes. So, this was going to be an auditory experience. And for me, there's three soundscapes happening. There's what you're hearing, say, the music in the room when they're actually in front of the orchestra. And then you have the music that they're listening to. Every single one of these conductors listens to music all the time, they had headphones in; they were listening to their pieces. And so, it was that music - and being inside and outside of that, sort of, that auditory space. And then it was the music in their imaginations, how it sounded in their heads. And it was really fun with the sound design to jump from - to all of these sort of three different auditory spaces. And for - also it was this idea of what's going on outside of the world, and them having to shut that off in order to concentrate. So, one of our participants is a single mother with twins. And - they're five, so they're running around the house, and she's doing most of the caregiving. Her mom's there occasionally to help. And so, having to have her noise cancelling headphones on while they're running around. And while she's trying to learn and study these phenomenal, difficult scores, that was a lot of fun to play with.
Matthew Sherwood 14:26 (14:53)
Indeed. I love Zoe. I think - as someone who's got - who have - my wife and I have kids. I don't know how she does it. It's absolutely amazing what she does, but it is amazing. And, yeah; no, I like all the subjects you had, but, you know, she in her own - her way certainly is - was quite a compelling character. And that kind of brings something up. I mean, this is such an ultra-competitive field, right? It's like the arts in general. I mean, it's not like great conducting jobs are a dime a dozen. They're very few and they struggle to find employment and gigs, and as you said, Zoe travels the globe just doing temporary conductorships. And was it Mélisse? Had she done, like, eight moves in twelve years?
Maggie Contreras 15:20
Twelve.
Matthew Sherwood 15:21
Twelve moves?
Maggie Contreras 15:21
Oh wait. Yeah. A large number.
Matthew Sherwood 15:27
Almost every year, she's moving, it seems like. So, I mean, it's just this... so, I guess it would only make sense that they would have an incredible passion for what they do, because - I mean, it's such a challenge to do it, and to be gainfully employed. And the thing you were - but one thing I wanted [to] pick up on is you're talking about what, you know, you wanted to, sort of, let the audience, kind of, maybe shock is not the right word, but get us, kind of, wake us up. I mean, what is it about these - was there anything that surprised you? Did you have preconceived ideas going in, and then these women just surprised you probably at every turn.
Maggie Contreras 16:09 (16:38)
Of course, of course. I definitely had preconceived notions. I had an idea in my head of what - I feel like - this is not talking about documentary filmmaking - but I feel like you always have to have an idea of what it is you're getting into, but then the magic and joy and fun and danger is you take a step back and let it blossom into what it needs to be. So, I had done pre-interviews with everyone, with all 14 of the candidates; there's 14 in this competition - and there's a process of elimination. There's three rounds of elimination, and I'd done pre-interviews, so I knew bits and pieces about people, sort of top line. Like, I knew, Zoe had two kids, for example. Mélisse, I knew she was - I knew she had been born and raised in Paris, and she was living in Iowa, of all places - a Parisian in Iowa, I mean. For the listeners who don't know, like, I had never been to Iowa and I'd travelled to most states in the United States. You don't go to Iowa! Sorry, Iowa. But that in itself was compelling. Like, why is she there. But I had no idea about her backstory, for example, and every single one of these women, and I feel as though this is sort of the same, this is sort of the attitude I bring to anyone I'm meeting with a camera is you have a story to tell. Every single person has a story to tell. And it's just a matter of being present with that person, and doing some very deep listening, and it always - it unfolds and then you figure out how to connect those pieces in the edit. But yes, everything for the most part was surprising. It all unfolded as we went along.
Matthew Sherwood 18:21
Actually, I think that's - because I do want to follow that up - but let's give our listeners an early break, if you don't mind. So, we'll be right back with Maggie Contreras, the director and producer of Maestra, premiering at Tribeca on June 9,
Factual America Midroll 18:36
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @alamopictures to keep up-to-date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the programme, our guests, and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.
Matthew Sherwood 18:56 (19:40)
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Maggie Contreras, the director and producer of Maestra. It's premiering at Tribeca on June 9. We've been talking about the making of the film. And these incredible women that - you're talking about, well, finding these subjects and you start off with 14 and - I mean, how did you narrow it down? Because - and then, okay, so we talked about spoiler alerts, I won't - the one thing I will say is, I mean, you even get the winner in your group. So, you didn't know that going in that that was going to necessarily happen. It maybe wouldn't have mattered, but it is interesting. I mean, and all of them very compelling. You said everyone's got a story, but how did you narrow it down to those four initially? And then I think a fifth one came along at the competition.
Maggie Contreras 19:51
Yes. So, there's 14 candidates. All 14 were open to participating. So, that was step one. Is it going to narrow it down by having some no's. So, that wasn't the case. However, not to harp on about Covid, but...
Matthew Sherwood 20:09
It's okay.
Maggie Contreras 20:09
... we were doing this during Covid...
Matthew Sherwood 20:11
Right.
Maggie Contreras 20:12
... so, not everyone was accessible to me. Not every country was allowing people in. There [were] places, I would have loved to have gone but I could not. In fact, one woman from Hong Kong ended up not being able to travel...
Matthew Sherwood 20:30
Right.
Maggie Contreras 20:31
... to the competition. So, there was limit there. There was also - we were not fully financed throughout the process. So, we didn't always have the financing to go to all the places I might have wanted to go. So, we were naturally - our palette was naturally limited, which is great! You know, it's sometimes - if you have this attitude that anyone can be fascinating, if put under the microscope of a lens, then it was a pretty good gamble that I ended up following seven of the 14...
Matthew Sherwood 21:16
Right.
Maggie Contreras 21:16
... the five that we ended up with, were going to work, these are very - these are people with a very, very unique job. So, I felt it was going to be... I felt pretty certain going in that everyone is going to have a compelling story. Of course, some more so than others. Those with more struggle, and with more stakes, are of course going to be more interesting from a narrative perspective. But so, I ended up having to start off with the people who were in the country I was in, which was the United States. So, there were three contestants there. One, Mélisse, who is originally from Paris, but ended up in Iowa. Another woman who did not - she didn't end up making the cut of the film, but she was up in Michigan. She was a South Korean grad student at the University of Michigan, and spent a lot of time with her. And then, Tamara who is in Atlanta, the Atlanta area. And then a little bit more funding came through. Zoe was all - Zoe who is based in Athens really wanted to meet her. And there were two Polish contestants. I wanted to see one of them. Ended up... yeah, being able to follow one of them. And then we have Ustina, Ukrainian - Ukrainian living in Germany, who we met at the competition, and - not a spoiler, but another surprise, something I could never have seen coming, was Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It happened eight days before the competition. When we landed at Charles de Gaulle, there was a sea of, I think they were NATO military people that were being [deployed]. And, yeah, we were entering with our bags to go to a conductor competition, and they were leaving. It was really surreal.
Matthew Sherwood 22:46
Yeah.
Maggie Contreras 23:29
And so, one of the candidates in the competition is Ustina, who has family in Ukraine. And there was a Russian as well, who we were following, who ended up not making the cut. But yeah, it was absolutely fascinating, and that - the Russian woman had left Russia because she'd gotten a tip that she should get out, or she wasn't going to get any flights. So, she managed to get out early and packed her bags and hasn't returned. And it's been over a year.
Matthew Sherwood 24:17
Wow. I mean - so, I mean, maybe back, sort of swinging this back and forth, but I was gonna say, so you end up with this - so, you fall into this competition. And so, I mean, how are they judged? Because I think what we do see is we definitely see their performances and I think you were already talking about how they get so little time with an orchestra even to practice and things but ultimately, because I mean, I have some music background, but, you know, I'm listening to it on the headphones and everything and they - all the performances so great, you know, it's like how do you differentiate and - anything you could share on that?
Maggie Contreras 25:01 (25:02)
Sure. So, one of the goals and challenges of the first act of the film - so, the first, in this case, 25 minutes was, people need to understand enough about what conducting is, and what to look for, and what to listen for, in order to fully appreciate the competition. So, okay, what is the sort of 101 of conducting? So, that when I go into this competition, I feel as a viewer, knowledgeable enough to really be able to appreciate what's happening. And what was very challenging was, when I sat down with the experts, with the judges, when I sat down with the conductors that we were following, I asked them all, what makes a great conductor different from a good conductor? And what does it look like when you're failing? What does it look like when you're succeeding? And every single person used the word 'subjective'.
Matthew Sherwood 26:11
Right.
Maggie Contreras 26:13
That was my [...] for the film. It was the subjective film.
Matthew Sherwood 26:18
Right.
Maggie Contreras 26:19
And it's true. I mean, I feel like for even the novice ear, or rather, at least the novice eyes, when someone steps onto the podium, and you've seen people all in a row, you can kind of tell the ones that stand out from the others. But then judging - but then calling that group, like, from the 14 down to the 7, and then trying to judge those seven. It is incredibly subjective. I know that judges didn't agree necessarily on who were passed through. It's not easy. And it - I'm only speaking for myself, but it seems like you should close your eyes and judge conductor, any musician; that's why most - I don't know, you'd have to fact check me on if I use the word 'all', but major orchestras do blind auditions, behind a curtain; you don't see the person because it's about what sort of music they're producing. And that's not the case for conductors. And I, again, speaking for myself, I'm going to venture to say that it's difficult to not take into consideration that a conductor represents an orchestra, and in cases of major orchestras around the world, those are huge cultural institutions with a lot of money behind them, representing some of the, like, elite - representing cities...
Matthew Sherwood 28:11
Right.
Maggie Contreras 28:12
... across the world. Some cities philharmonic, it's one of its major cultural institutions, and how do they advertise that? They usually advertise it with the conductor. And those conductors are on big posters on sides of buildings. So, how someone presents themself, I think is judged. And that's problematic.
Matthew Sherwood 28:44
Yeah.
Maggie Contreras 28:45
As we see in the film.
Matthew Sherwood 28:46
No, indeed. It's captured very well. And I will say, just from my own - because I did watch it with - I did - I had to, I watched with my eyes open, but - you'll be happy to know - yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I, you know, I mean, look, we get our few minutes with each one on each performance in each round. But I - let's put it this way, I probably just based on that little bit, I wouldn't have picked the winner. You know, that doesn't mean anything. I'm not an expert on conducting or music, but it's interesting, you know, little things you think you pick up on, you're like, well, that person doesn't quite have that, or this, you know, she's the one that's got it or whatever. No, it's - went completely differently, actually.
Maggie Contreras 29:35 (30:06)
And it's one of - one of the things that's really fun for me is watching people's reactions and feeling a connection to one of the conductors; like, oh, I feel I really loved so-and-so because, or I really love so-and-so because, and they're all valid. They're valid reasons to be attracted to a specific person. But it just goes to show the subjectivity once again. And then I question, you know, should it be a competition? Or should it be a showcase? However, competitions are very important for conductors. This isn't - another point is that this isn't a competition just for a competition's sake. A conductor cannot audition their instrument because their instrument is the orchestra. So, there are very few circumstances for conductors who are just starting out to be able to show off their talents and especially show off their talents in front of a room of people who are decision makers for their jobs. So, conducting competitions are sort of normal, they exist, obviously, mix gendered. But it's rare to have women chosen to participate, and more rare for those women to make it to the final rounds. So, it also brings media attention. People love a competition, right? There's sponsors, there's media, there's a winner, there's - people love that. So, whereas I personally would like to see more of a showcase environment instead of a competition, competitions are important, and why shouldn't they get their own?
Matthew Sherwood 31:31 (31:59)
Yeah, well, no, exactly. But and also as I think you're alluding to, these are make or break situations for these women in terms of career and getting that next job or being, you know - they all want to be, like we all do, we all want to be successful at what we do, and that how you do it these competitions is going to determine that in many ways. How did this project come about? Was this your idea?
Maggie Contreras 32:03
So, this is the second - we follow the second iteration of the competition, the first one was in 2020. And National Public Radio, thank you very much, where I get lots of my ideas, was covering, doing a story about the first iteration in 2020, and heard about it on the radio. My producing partner, Neil Berkeley, heard it and called me up and was like, Hey, do you hear about this thing? I'm like, Yeah, I used to want to be a conductor when I was about five, six. John Williams. He's like, Yeah, you should direct this, I think. I'm like, really?
Matthew Sherwood 32:51
Oh, wow.
Maggie Contreras 32:52
Okay. It was as simple as that. It just felt really - it felt right. The story felt so clean; like, so, I'm a producer. And it was a perfect producing project. It had this clean calendar. We heard about it. And it gave us just enough time to be able to pitch it out, to be able to try and find the funding, do the follow, and then do the competition, and then do the post; like, it was this beautiful year-and-a-half that was mapped out. And it's so nice to have something set in time that you have to achieve, instead of it being sort of an open ended story that you have to find an end to or that can go on forever. It was gonna happen with or without our cameras. So, it was nice, also, just to be able to say, Hey, this is happening. We want to do this. It's happening on this date. Help us make it happen.
Matthew Sherwood 34:07
Well, so - but then wasn't that right at the beginning of Covid, pretty much, because if they were 2020 then if they happen usually around in March, I mean that must have - well, it had its challenges or it was the perfect thing to do as you say, you had this year-and-a-half to two to get there, right, to get it all made.
Maggie Contreras 34:30
Yes. So...
Matthew Sherwood 34:32
I guess more important, how do you gain access to La Maestra? You know, I mean, that is something, too, because it's...
Maggie Contreras 34:38
Sure.
Matthew Sherwood 34:39
... easy to have an idea but they've got to be okay with it, too.
Maggie Contreras 34:45
I can definitely - yeah - so, La Maestra is put on by the Paris Philharmonic and the Paris Mozart Orchestra, two large cultural institutions and organisations in Paris. So, first you had - you had the cultural barrier, you had the fact that they didn't know me, why should I be the one? Why my team? Our past accolades meant really nothing in this other culture. So, and then there's sort of the bureaucratic process of going through various meetings and approvals in an institution as large as the Paris Philharmonic. So, there was that process.
Matthew Sherwood 35:36
Yeah.
Maggie Contreras 35:37
It doesn't move very fast. And there are holidays and long weekends.
Matthew Sherwood 35:45 (35:45)
And then, so, as you say, you're coming at this from the producer standpoint, but then at what point do you say, You know what? I'm going to direct this, too.
Maggie Contreras 35:52
Oh, the beginning.
Matthew Sherwood 35:53
At the beginning?
Maggie Contreras 35:54
Absolutely. Definitely. This was the perfect first directing story for me to take on. It's a world that I've always been fascinated by. One I have been bathed in, but from an outsider, from an outsider's perspective; like, my family wasn't one to have the privilege of buying concert tickets all the time, but my mom was constantly playing the music in the house. And ever there was a free concert in the park, we were always there. She would take me to the orchestra pit. And instead of going into the snack bar, we'd be trying to talk to the musicians during their break. So, it's just an appreciation. My mom appreciated it. I remember my babysitter, she appreciated it. We would talk about like, what sort of stories do you hear in the music? I, you know, as a kid, I was like, fascinated by The Nutcracker, right, there's an easy story, Peter and the Wolf; like, these very simple ways to bring young people into the music worked for me. And I picked up an instrument as soon as I was allowed to at school - fourth grade - picked up my flute, I still own the same Yamaha flute, pick it up every once in a while, still play it. And there was just always a real appreciation. So, even though the gilded concert halls of Paris felt very far away from me, and where and how I grew up, there was - I always felt as though it was my music, I was allowed to be participatory in it. So, when this opportunity came, I could clearly see how I could connect with these people. And then, of course, there's the being a woman of it all, the stories and struggles that each one of these five women shared, I by nature of being a living, breathing, human being who happens to be a woman in our current society, I too, could identify with a lot of what they're going through. So, there was a trust factor that was achieved rather quickly. And also, they're artists. I'm an artist; like, there's an immediate language...
Matthew Sherwood 38:43
Right.
Maggie Contreras 38:44
... and way for us to connect.
Matthew Sherwood 38:46 (38:46)
Well, I think it was great, because I think you get a shout out in the film, don't you, towards the end. I mean, one of them's like, Maggie, did you see the Larry David guy? You know, I mean, it was - that was very touching; one character who keeps trying to tell everyone there's somebody looks just like Larry David in the audience or something.
Maggie Contreras 39:04
Yeah. That's going to feel very abstract to listeners who haven't seen the film, but I just love Tamara. She's - her way of sort of coping with the stress that's going on around her was to, you know, randomly bring up a Larry David look-alike that was in the audience. Yes!
Matthew Sherwood 39:28 (39:30)
And so, this is all happening. You're making this film. It's largely 21-22. And then, just coincidentally, does - because I know it gets mentioned even on the Tribeca site - it's something about the buzz around Tar but, you know, Tar comes out at the same time. Is that just fortunate or not, I don't know, for you.
Maggie Contreras 39:50
Utter coincidence, and not just Tar, but we have Bradley Cooper playing Leonard Bernstein coming out, we have a conductor had about Marin Alsop that had just premiered at Tribeca, I think, in 2020. And then there was another - like, conductors are in the zeitgeist. It just was one of those lucky things that happened. We were in post-production when the majority of the world heard about Tar existing.
Matthew Sherwood 40:23
Right.
Maggie Contreras 40:24
So, yeah, I couldn't believe it. Circumstance, I guess it's now - now is the time of the conductor.
Matthew Sherwood 40:35
I think that says something, but I'm not exactly sure what it does say. But unless you have a view on why we're becoming interested in conductors.
Maggie Contreras 40:43
No clue. I don't think anyone can answer that question. It is so interesting. I think it's just happenstance.
Matthew Sherwood 40:52 (40:52)
And then one last thing on the production side, I mean, how did Worldwide Pants and David Letterman become involved? Because that kind of might surprise some people. David Letterman gets a credit, you know, it's - but they do a lot - I mean, they do a lot of interesting things.
Maggie Contreras 41:06
They do. So, it does it - it will seem sort of random. David Letterman is a classical music fan. He wants to make document - he wants to make content that is good for the world. So, he recognised that in this project, but Neil Berkeley, who's my producer...
Matthew Sherwood 41:31
Right.
Maggie Contreras 41:31
... I produced for a very long time, he's a documentary director. He and I were at Tribeca in 2017 with Gilbert, Gilbert Gottfried documentary, and Neil had been working with Worldwide Pants on various other projects, and brought this to them. Yeah, and they were our first financing in, which led to Foothill Productions; and Jamie Wolf's company led to some - many other wonderful funders who came on.
Matthew Sherwood 42:07 (42:17)
Wow. I think we're actually noticing, we're actually starting to come to the end of our time together. But I wanted to ask you about your - you mentioned earlier, or was it maybe off-camera, but you come at this from an acting background? How do you find that helps you with - so, then you went into producer but now you're a director as well and documentary, how does that help you, or do you...?
Maggie Contreras 42:34
I love that question, thank you for asking. I really empathise with people in front of the camera. And I feel as I love working with non-actors in front of the camera. To me, it's almost like a scene, like my non-verbal, my non-verbals are going to affect the person in front of me. I love - and being able to react to them, and really hear what they're saying, and little tricks to help them feel calm and for them feel, like, they can be their authentic self in front of the camera. Those are - those are tricks and tools that I have, in my toolkit, are things that I learned as an actor when I was in front of the camera. So, I have a real empathy for them and their experience and hopefully have little ways to help them feel like they can be their unique selves, and it is a conversation I feel almost in a scene with them. If you're interviewing someone, it is a back and forth, or being able to observe in a vérité sense, approaching it almost like a piece of theatre that's happening live in front of you. I don't want to minimise someone's real life experiences by making them sound trivial, but there is definite crossover in the skill set, that I really enjoy.
Matthew Sherwood 44:15
No, I think it's very interesting - I mean, you have all kinds of different people do documentary, and I've had directors who say they can never imagine ever being in front of the camera. In fact, they don't even want to be interviewed on this really, because they're just so used to being always behind the camera, but at the same time - and then at the same time acknowledging they can't believe these people do go in front of camera, you know, but I thought that was - it's very interesting. And I think, I mean, would say, what was, well, they're conductors, so maybe that's part of it as well, but everyone seems so comfortable and poised in front of a camera and I can imagine that's usually the norm when you're...
Maggie Contreras 45:00
... yeah, two points on that. Yes, they are performers. These people are performers, are used to being front and centre. They understand body language, too. They understand all of this, and talking artist to artist, they understood that this was my art form, and I was telling a story about their art form. However, there is an intimacy in this film that people asked me how long, like, how long was I with them, for them to be able to open up...
Matthew Sherwood 45:36
Right.
Maggie Contreras 45:36
... in some cases, it was five days. So, knowing that you have this pressure of getting to a person's essence very, very quickly. I didn't have months to do that. I had weeks and then sometimes days, to get to the core of who these people - to the core of their humanity. And I, I - yeah, I like to say that my background helped me do that.
Matthew Sherwood 46:07 (46:41)
Well, whatever your background was you certainly did do it. I think that's the word I haven't used yet. Intimate is an extremely good way of describing much of this film. And then if I can just ask you one more, two more questions. You've got this awesomely eclectic career, at least in terms of your range of topics and things and I can't believe I haven't seen the Gilbert Gottfried doc, so I'm definitely going to check that out. But what is next for you, after this? I know you're basking in the glory of this film, but what's going - what's ahead? What else can we look for, coming from you?
Maggie Contreras 46:52
Can't bask for too long! You have to keep moving forward! I'm developing a couple of projects. The one I'm particularly excited about, it's Erin Brockovich character. All documentary. I don't have a desire to go into narrative at the moment. So, yes, it's another scenario where there is - there is an event happening. In this instance, it's a court case. And it's following a phenomenal mother, single mother, as she navigates this case.
Matthew Sherwood 47:37 (47:37)
And what ties all of these different films that you've done?
Maggie Contreras 47:41
I'm still trying to figure that one out. I wish I had a good answer for you. But solar energy...
Matthew Sherwood 47:48
Yeah?
Maggie Contreras 47:48
... a beloved New York comic, conductors. I can't figure it out. The only - what drives it for me is, first, it has to be entertaining, right? Movies, it's movies, we eat popcorn. Movies have to be fun, they have to be entertaining for me. There are plenty of amazing colleagues of mine out there who are going to chase that issue film and are going to win Oscars for it. For me, first and foremost, it has to be fun, it has to be entertaining. And hopefully, you learn something while you're being entertained. You're touched, your humanity is touched, while you're being entertained. So, I think that's the through line for me, is at the core, they're interesting stories, and hopefully you're entertained for 88 minutes.
Matthew Sherwood 48:47 (48:58)
Well, I certainly was, I had a couple bowls of popcorn and it is entertaining and it's compelling. And it's tightly edited. I haven't said anything about that. But I felt that it was...
Maggie Contreras 49:03
And it was edited in the UK and Northern Ireland.
Matthew Sherwood 49:06
Oh, really?
Maggie Contreras 49:07
Yes. Red Wolf. Based in Belfast.
Matthew Sherwood 49:11
Wow.
Maggie Contreras 49:12
Elisa Bonora's company. Incredible editors. Yes, I adore Belfast; there is a creative community that is exploding there. It reminds me of, like, what Atlanta was doing 10, 15 years ago. Yes, ever since Game of Thrones. So, Game of Thrones was shot there. And they had to build studio systems in order to support it. I think they're on their third, fourth, maybe fourth studio they're building now, and - I mean, my colour and mix was done by the people who are making dragons scary and, like, the same people that did Game of Thrones did the colour and mix on Maestra. It's incredible colour and mix, by the way.
Matthew Sherwood 49:58
Yes.
Maggie Contreras 49:58
You have Red Wolf based there. I followed this editor over, she had edited a friend of mine, his documentary about David Crosby. And so, that's why I met her. And she had moved over during the pandemic. From LA. She's actually Italian. Long story. She's got an incredible company there. You've got Yellow Moon there. I'm working with Fine Point Films on this other project who are based there. Belfast is the place.
Matthew Sherwood 50:31
Well, you heard it here first. I'm going to check that out, actually. As you know, we're based in the UK. I was not aware of that scene, actually.
Maggie Contreras 50:41
Yeah. I was living in Holywood, Northern Ireland. I left Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, to edit my film in Holywood, dropped an L, Northern Ireland.
Matthew Sherwood 50:52
Excellent. Well, Maggie, thank you so much for coming on. We really enjoyed chatting with you. Just to remind our listeners and viewers, we've been talking with Maggie Contreras, the director and producer of Maestra. It's premiering at Tribeca on June 9, but I'm sure - don't know when, don't know how, but I'm sure you're going to be able to check it out in the not too distant future, and you definitely should. So, thanks again. And hopefully if we haven't scared you off, we can have you on after your next project because I'm sure it's going to be another winner like this one. So, thanks so much.
Maggie Contreras 51:27
Thank you.
Matthew Sherwood 51:30
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