Moonage Daydream: David Bowie’s Impressionistic Life
David Bowie lived a life of extraordinary creativity and success. It was also a life of controversy, radical changes of direction, and an unceasing desire to push his art to the limits.
He was a cultural icon and an artistic genius. How does someone make a film about such a figure? According to the director of Moonage Daydream, and this episode’s guest, Brett Morgen, you have to first know your limitations: you won’t be able to cover everything so look for the ‘through line of action’, the theme that ties all the aspects of the film together. For Brett, the way he displays the through line is by making his film less informational and more experiential, and ‘impressionistic’.
In addition to Moonage Daydream, Brett also discusses some of his previous films, including Montage of Heck, a bio-pic of Kurt Cobain, and The Kid Stays in the Picture. He shares a little of his ‘method’ approach to directing: to make The Kid he lived with its subject, Bob Evans, for a year.
Coming back to Moonage Daydream, we discover how the ultimate origin of the film can be traced right back to 2007. We also learn something of how much the film cost to make. Not in money, but personally. For during the pandemic, a heart condition meant that Brett had to be physically isolated from his family.
Ultimately, making Moonage Daydream was an intense experience. But also, one from which Brett was able to learn important lessons. Some he is able to share with Matthew. Others, as he admits, he is still absorbing. Great art has that effect. Fortunately, great artists stay with us to guide us through their work, and David Bowie was one of the greatest of all.
“[David Bowie] lived his life by example... he was so comfortable in his skin. I watched every frame, you know, for two years... he was always present, and always learning and viewing each moment as an opportunity for an exchange, for growth.... he was obviously an incredible artist, but there's so much more to draw inspiration from.” – Brett Morgen
Time Stamps
02:10 – Matthew introduces this episode’s film, Moonage Daydream, and guest, director Brett Morgen
04:32 – Brett discusses how he is feeling following the success of Moonage Daydream’s release
05:08 – ‘What is Moonage Daydream’ – Brett and Matthew look at what the film is, and is about
07:17 – How the film industry has changed in the 23 years since Brett was nominated for an Oscar for On the Ropes
08:37 – How Brett got involved in the Moonage Daydream project
11:18 – Brett’s thoughts on how one makes a film about a ‘cultural icon or artistic genius’
14:27 – Brett discusses how he let Kurt Cobain, Bob Evans, and David Bowie lead him in the making of his film about them
16:02 – The impossibility of living up to Bowie’s artistic genius
20:30 – The way in which making Moonage Daydream was an isolated process
24:24 – What Brett learnt about himself in making Moonage Daydream
26:18 – The necessity for creatives to work long hours and living and breathing David Bowie
27:48 – What’s next for Brett
30:54 – Brett’s view on the message of the film
34:20 – The importance of not trying to fit everything into a film
35:33 – Brett’s thoughts on whether it was an advantage that he came to Moonage Daydream as a casual Bowie fan
Resources
Moonage Daydream
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Brett Morgen
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 123: Moonage Daydream: David Bowie’s Impressionistic Life
Matthew Sherwood 00:00
This is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary, and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. Moonage Daydream is a cinematic odyssey exploring David Bowie's creative and musical journey. Who better than to create that odyssey than Oscar nominated and Emmy winning director, Brett Morgen, who also edited, produced, and wrote the film. With the blessing of the Bowie estate, Brett has created a work of cinematic art that is considered one of the year's best films by scores of reviewers, and has been described as 'the most immersive rock film of all time' by Indiewire. 'A cinematic tour de force' by Deadline. 'A stunning achievement in editing' by rogerebert.com, and 'a scintillating, psychedelic masterwork' by none other than an NME. You get the idea. Join us as Brett discusses the creative process, and what it's like to work in total isolation to bring this masterpiece to the big screen. This one promises to be special. So, stay tuned. Brett Morgen, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Brett Morgen 01:06
Things are great. Thank you so much.
Matthew Sherwood 01:08
Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on. Just to remind our listeners and viewers, we're talking about Moonage Daydream. I think it's - according to the official announcement - it's found everywhere. But do catch it in a cinema or movie theatre, if at all possible, I would stress. So, welcome again to Factual America. Congratulations on the Oscar nomination, the BAFTA nomination, and all the accolades that have come with this film. You must be ecstatic.
Brett Morgen 01:37
We didn't get an Oscar nomination, but thank you for the...
Matthew Sherwood 01:40
Ah, someone - I thought you did! Someone... Okay, BAFTA.
Brett Morgen 01:47
We got some other awards; so, we're good.
Matthew Sherwood 01:50
Okay. Well, let's - that's my bad. And we'll - so, I - well, you should have. That's what I'll say. But, you know - I was wondering what IMDb was doing with just saying - anyway, that's another story. You must - anyway, with all the accolades, and everything that's come your way, you must be relieved, ecstatic. How are you feeling at the moment about all this?
Brett Morgen 02:17 (04:32)
I mean, I was feeling - I've been feeling completely buoyant since we premiered the film at Cannes. I feel like I haven't really - my feet haven't really touched the ground since then, and it's just been an incredible ride, you know? Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 02:37
Yeah. Well, you know, usually on this podcast, we ask filmmakers to give us a synopsis of the film. I don't think that's appropriate here. I think, actually, a better question, at least in my view, is what is Moonage Daydream?
Brett Morgen 02:53 (05:08)
'What is Moonage Daydream?' Moonage - I mean, like, what is a moonage daydream? Or...
Matthew Sherwood 02:59
No, or what is the film? Usually, I ask, what is the film about? The film's...
Brett Morgen 03:02
It's a movie.
Matthew Sherwood 03:03
It's a movie. Yes.
Brett Morgen 03:06
It's a movie. It's a movie about David Bowie. It's a movie - actually. It's a movie about Bowie. In quotation. Yeah, about the sort of energy, the force of energy that is Bowie.
Matthew Sherwood 03:23
Because you've been - at least some, have been at pains to describe it as not as a documentary per se.
Brett Morgen 03:30
It said doc. I don't understand that. It's a - the thing is, it's obviously a documentary. It's just that the word 'documentary' carries with it a very narrow sort of definition for most people. You know, unlike fiction, we don't refer to Nope as a fiction film. Nobody's referring to Avatar as a fiction film. Or The Batman as a fiction film. We don't say that. We say it's a superhero film, or it's a horror film, or it's a genre bending film, or it's a rom-com. And documentaries just have this, like, one label, which is even more confusing, because traditionally, it's been a journalistic endeavor. So, you know, I think the best thing we could do at the moment is at least have, like, two, sort of, sub-genres, like journalistic and impressionistic. It seems like that would sort of cover just about any non-fiction film, because I'd much rather someone approach Moonage, knowing that they're coming into an impressionistic non-fiction film.
Matthew Sherwood 03:32
It's interesting because I would have thought the last few years, everyone's talking about this Golden Age of documentaries, and all this stuff. I mean, you would have thought that we wouldn't...
Brett Morgen 04:54
Golden Age of Screening. It's been that [sort of] documentary golden age. I make the [...] documentaries. It is not a golden age, right now.
Matthew Sherwood 05:01 (07:17)
Well, that is a, you know, that is a perspective - I find that very interesting. And, I think - I mean, it's - your - one thing we were gonna ask is, it's twenty - well, you've been nominated for an Oscar, for one of your films, that's 23 years ago. I mean, how have things changed over that period for the industry, and how have they not changed?
Brett Morgen 05:29
Oh, well, I was nominated in 2000...
Matthew Sherwood 05:35
Yeah.
Brett Morgen 05:36
... for my first film, which was my thesis film from NYU. It was called On The Ropes...
Matthew Sherwood 05:41
Right.
Brett Morgen 05:42
And back then, when we got nominated, I had to scroll on the internet to find out, and we didn't do anything. We didn't - there was no campaign, there was no publicist. There were no screenings, there was no advertisement. We showed up for Oscar weekend. And during that four month period, or three month period, I was able to do pre-production on The Kid Stays in the Picture. And it was, you know, it was exciting, and it cost a lot less money than things do today.
Matthew Sherwood 06:22 (08:37)
So, you've - so, Moonage Daydream, how did you become involved with this project? I mean, did you - was it your idea? Did you approach Bowie's estate? How did this happen?
Brett Morgen 06:34
No one ever hires me to do anything. I have to hire myself. So, yeah, I kind of forced myself onto this. No, I come up with an idea - I met with David in 2007, to discuss a different type of movie. And the timing for that didn't work out. And in 2015, a year before he passed, I came up with this idea to do something called the IMAX Music Experience. And the idea of the IMAX Music Experience was I was going to do a series of 15, 40 minute non-linear IMAX music experiences to live in perpetuity in the science halls, and take over the evening positioning; so, it'd be like seven o'clock, Beatles; eight o'clock, Zeppelin; nine o'clock, you know, Beyonce, etc etc. And, you know, at 40 minutes, you don't really need a plot, and what I was interested in was taking music and playing it in the greatest sound system available to the audience, which is IMAX. And so, that's where it started. And then, David - when David passed, I called his executor who I had met with years earlier, pitched him what I was interested in doing, and, you know, he said that David had pretty much saved everything throughout the years, and had told him that he did not want to participate in a traditional talking head documentary, that Bowie felt that in those type of movies, the experts kind of end up owning the history and the truth, and that was something, I guess, that he just wasn't that interested in. So, my take of doing this kind of non-biographical music experience really resonated with Bill. At that point, I had no idea of where I would go on this journey, or that it would go from this 40 minute razzle-dazzle to a two-and-a-half-hour life affirming odyssey - you know, really ended up taking on a life of its own. And I should say that it was originally designed to be, like, a one year endeavor, and ended up taking the better part of seven years.
Matthew Sherwood 9:03 (11:18)
Oh my God. So, I mean, how does one go about making a film about - I mean, you've told about how you approached the estate, but how do you go about making a film about David Bowie? I mean, do you - or how - I mean, we had someone who, you know - how do you go about making a film about a cultural icon or artistic genius?
Brett Morgen 09:24
You know, I've been doing this for twenty years now with these cultural icons like Bob Evans and Jane Goodall and Kurt Cobain. I mean, you know, to answer your question earnestly: you look for a through line of action. You enter the project, knowing, understanding that you're not going to cover everything, and that particularly with someone like Bowie - you know, with Kurt, he was in the public eye for three - just three years, and lived such a short life that it was possible to really go, kind of cradle-to-grave in the course of a little over two hours. With someone like David Bowie, that's just not even within the realm of possibility. So, if you attempt to do it, you sort of end up with Cliff Notes: the History. So, just by virtue of the format, that being IMAX and cinema, it kind of suggests a certain type of film. With all my movies, I like to say I make movies that aren't about the subject, that aren't information based. They're experiential. And they're meant to, kind of, be the experience of the subject, and set in a uniquely cinematic way. And, you know, and so, that's kind of how I've approached non-fiction. And so, Bowie, at the end of the day, readily lends himself to this sort of endeavor, both in the sense that one can track a non-biographical narrative with Bowie that addresses his creative process, as well as his spiritual journey. Bowie's life was his art and the way he approached life, and his philosophy towards life, was very much in sync with his art, which again, makes for a very contained through line.
Matthew Sherwood 11:35
And, I think, I mean, I don't - I try not to read reviews, or even watch or read other people, but...
Brett Morgen 11:43
I wish I could say the same!
Matthew Sherwood 11:45
Well, I don't have any reviews of myself. But the - I mean, I've seen some refs that you were in, you know, you wanted to, you're inspired by Bowie's artistic techniques and principles, and you incorporated those into the - into everything you did, and in putting the film together. Is that correct? And how - what lengths did you have to go to in order to achieve that?
Brett Morgen 12:11 (14:27)
Well, you know, that's always - you know, when I did Montage of Heck, I found a tape that Kurt Cobain had created called Montage of Heck. And I like to say that that tape was the blueprint for how to construct the film. I suppose that with The Kid Stays in the Picture, Bob's book very much helped define and lead how I would approach that. With Bowie, I've made a film about an artist, his creative process. And so, everything he's saying about his work is applicable to how I would go about making this film. And so, if you watch the film, and you want to know what I did just listen to him, he's actually telling the viewer what I'm doing almost moment-by-moment, step-by-step. So, you know, there were - some of these ideas were abstract. Some of them were, you know, get out of your comfort zone. Sometimes, they were more kind of overt, or I have the oblique strategy cards that I would incorporate almost hourly. But in essence, he provided a kind of roadmap on how to create and construct the film, and how to surround myself with like-minded collaborators who were willing to play in the sandbox.
Matthew Sherwood 13:37
And so, as part of - do you try - I mean, is it conscious? Do you try to live up to his artistic genius? You almost, I mean, you have to...
Brett Morgen 13:47 (16:02)
No, I'm an intellectual midget next to Bowie. That was the - that was the thing that I was most concerned about was that, you know, filmically, as a non-fiction director working in archives, I, you know, I feel very confident in approaching a subject like David Bowie. In terms of intensive immersion, you know, I'm a method director. So, I don't approach my subjects from the outside looking in. I try to approach it from the inside looking out. And so, like a method actor, when I'm working on a film, I like to inhabit the culture of my subjects. So, I was doing - when I was writing The Kid Stays in the Picture, even though it's not an art - it's not a verite film, I lived with Bob Evans for a year as I worked on the script, so I could soak in his influences and inspirations I knew what music he liked, what he'd like to eat, you know, all of his kind of - these little things that an actor would want to kind of absorb, not because they need to know what he ate, but because they want to be prepared for any situation that they may find themselves in. With Bowie - I mean with Bob, that was manageable, and with Kurt, that seemed manageable. With Jane, that seemed manageable. In part because all those subjects were very singular in their pursuits. Bowie was someone who read, who travelled with, like, a chest of like, 1,000 books, and was so well read and educated, self-educated, that there was no way from the time I got the assignment [to] the time I finished, that I could even come close. It was like the Tower of Babel. You know, I could, there was no way I could absorb all of that. So, that was very intimidating, coming into it knowing that, like, I - no, there was zero - there's no way that I can possibly come close to looking at him eye-to-eye on that level, but, of course, you know, I wasn't writing an essay, I was making a film; so, it only needed to, you know, it got to a level I left it like that.
Matthew Sherwood 16:20
Well, I think that takes us to a good point for a quick break for our listeners and viewers. We'll be right back with the award winning director of Moonage Daydream. Nominated for a BAFTA, and that's Brett Morgen, who also edited, produced, and wrote the film. Available, I think just about everywhere, certainly online, and do check, look for it on a big screen somewhere near you, or even IMAX, I gather. So, and check Brett out also in his Twitter feed, @brettmorgen.
Factual America Midroll 16:51
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @alamopictures, to keep up-to-date with new releases or upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the program, our guests, and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.
Matthew Sherwood 17:09
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Brett Morgen, director of Moonage Daydream. We were talking about your creative process. You went through what you were, you know, in putting this incredible film together. I mean, the film makes a lot of - at least I felt like - makes a lot of reference to sort of, well, Bowie, through Bowie, largely sort of the isolation of the artist, and also, I gather from you, and this is a seven year process, and you were both - you were director, producer, editor, writer. Was this an isolated process for you? Were you in kind of isolation part of this period? And does that reflect? - Does the film reflect your own experience? Or are you reflecting Bowie's? Or are you reflecting both? I guess it's all - is that a combination of all those things?
Brett Morgen 18:11
Yeah, well, who's to say? It's just kind of endless...
Matthew Sherwood 18:14
It just flows.
Brett Morgen 18:14 (20:30)
Yeah, it's sort of loop. Up until [...] started collaborating with the sound team and Stefan Nadelman on the visual effects it was as isolated and lonely an endeavor as one can do in the world of cinema, because there was no one else. I was by myself. You can't get much more isolated than that.
Matthew Sherwood 18:25
And was that intentional?
Brett Morgen 18:51
Well, you know, that's an interesting question. I mean, at some point, yes. You know, I don't think it's - it didn't start out that way. The pandemic came around and budgetary issues came around. There were a couple other producers when I started that, you know, we sort of - it was a seven year process. Couple years in, I was by myself. There was no, there were no notes from the financiers. They weren't given the film until it was finished. And so, at that point, like a couple years in, yes, it was by design. At a couple years in, I'm like, I have to fight my way out of this. This is on me. And there wasn't - I'm not saying that in a - it's not an enviable thing. It was really dumb, and it was not smart. And it was really problematic, to say the least. But I don't know how I could have arrived or I did without it. I mean, it really did feel - you know, you started this conversation, asking me about awards, and I could tell you with absolute clarity that for years putting this film together, there was no thought of awards, or audiences, it was just, can I get - can I pull this off? Can I make a film? Like, that was just like, is this a - does this work from beginning, middle to end? That was, I just didn't - there were times, most of the time during those first six years, it did not seem like it was going to happen. And at the - it was, you know, I couldn't get money, I couldn't get the money back. And I had no one to sort of help me get out of this mess. So, it was a - but again, like I said, at some point, I understood that I had put myself in that environment, and realized that I have been creating these kind of chaotic situations, anyway, through most of my projects; this one just was, you know - pandemic hit, too; that was really - talked about feeling in isolation; you know, I have a heart condition, and so, before the vaccine, I wasn't allowed to be near my children, or anyone, so I was completely isolated. Sleeping in the office next [...]. I took the project for five months to Hawaii, where I was quarantined on the Big Island. And went months without seeing a person, you know, just - you know, Alex, my assistant editor would remote into the system when I'd go for a walk. And, you know - I had a phone - I had a phone buddy back in LA, but yeah, it was - anyway, it was a long ride.
Matthew Sherwood 22:03
And, I mean, what did you - what did you learn about yourself in that process?
Brett Morgen 22:09 (24:24)
What I learn about myself? Well, I certainly, you know, learn that, you know, the cliché that anything is possible, if you're determined, and, you know, you set your sights on it. I mean, like I said, just completing a sentence, just having a film that you can go from beginning to end in this kind of presentation was something that, you know - you know, was setting - it was, it was very, it was, it was, yeah, I - you know, I - and then in the bigger picture, I'm still absorbing the lessons because while I was making the film, I learned so much, but I wasn't able to necessarily apply it because I couldn't breathe while I was making it. You know, this was a Catch 22 this film. I was learning all of these lessons about how to create a balance and how to let go, and I wanted to live by it, but I couldn't because if I wasn't editing, no one was moving the film forward. So, it's really now that the film's done, that I'm really beginning to feel the levity, the buoyancy of this whole experience.
Matthew Sherwood 23:37
Well, and I think I've seen reference to you saying it's, you know, the film, or working on Bowie taught you about balance, and what's - and I think had a profound change in your life. I mean, is that - I mean, is working ridiculous hours, that's just kind of par for the course, isn't it for the industry, or is that - doesn't have to be that way.
Brett Morgen 24:01
Not anymore.
Matthew Sherwood 24:02
Yeah.
Brett Morgen 24:03 (26:18)
Not anymore for me. And I, unfortunately, I think it does have to be that way when you're creat---. I mean, I don't know any other way to go about it. You know, it's - how does one put a premium or a time limit on their passion? I mean, these projects, you don't - there was not a, you know, nearly a minute, over seven years where I wasn't thinking of David and I found a way to always think about David. So, when I was exercising, I was listening to his music or listening to podcasts about it. When I was driving, I was listening to music; when, I mean, I went to sleep, listening to the music. It was everywhere. It was - yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 24:52
Yeah. And so, with these lessons, I mean, I think we're actually about to come to the end of our time together, Brett, but now that you're trying to, well, you're still flying all over the globe. You're coming to us from Israel on this record. I think you're - I think you're in my way next week; you'll be in the UK, I think, for a screening. But with - as you implement these lessons in this balance, what's next for you? Do you have anything that you can tell us about that's next on the horizon for you? Or is it about taking a break after these seven long years?
Brett Morgen 25:33 (27:48)
I don't have anything I really want - I have nothing that I want to do right now. Like, I - first time in my career, I'm kind of done with people; like, doing much, and that has taken me a lifetime to get here. And to feel like, I'm like, I'm good. You know, like, if that was my last film, I am thrilled that I had that opportunity and that experience. And I - you know, I kind of, you know, there was a moment as I was making it, and I said to my wife, I said, I think this may be my last film, and she's like, What are you talking about? And I feel it more now. I mean, knock on wood, but I really feel satiated. And I, like, not that - I don't want to do it again.
Matthew Sherwood 26:33
Right. Right.
Brett Morgen 26:34
It's not like a 'Wow, that was so great. Let's go do it again'. No, I don't want to do it again. That's really difficult.
Matthew Sherwood 26:40
If that's what it takes, yeah.
Brett Morgen 26:42
And I don't want to do half of it. I don't want to do something sort of half-assed. So, we'll see what happens. But, you know, it's - I think that the lessons that were applicable to me working with Bowie are really applicable to all of us, you know, and that was one of the beautiful things about the opportunity to work on this film is that Bowie's message, it applies whether you're a day laborer, a school teacher, a nurse, a surgeon, a filmmaker; you know, it's about finding a way to get the most out of each day, and about the, you know, maximize our experience, given the brevity of life, and it's simple. And whoever thought David Bowie would be this, you know, prophet of positivity, and, you know, almost, like, syrupy life lessons, but he lived his life by example, you know, and so, it's just - and, you know, he was so comfortable in his skin, I mean, I watched every frame, you know, for two years, and it was just, he was always present, and always learning and viewing each moment as an opportunity for an exchange, for growth. And I, you know, I think that he provided a, you know, he was obviously an incredible artist, but there's so much more to draw inspiration from.
Matthew Sherwood 28:31
And ultimately, whether conscious or not, is that what you want the message of the film to be? Or at least one of them?
Brett Morgen 28:39 (30:54)
Yeah, no, I think that the message is, the film is, live each day to the fullest. I mean, it's - I never thought I would make a film in which the message was that, sort of, simplistic. Not that Moonage Daydream is a simple film. But ultimately, you know, if you had to distil it to a single idea, that's what it is. I mean, and I guess - by the way, at the end of The Kid Stays in the Picture, Bob's sitting for an interview, and the interviewer says, Was it worth it? And Bob takes a long pause, and he goes, Yeah. Yeah, it was worth it. Let me tell you why. Most of us spend most of our lives at our work. I happen to love what I do. So, yeah, it's worth it, damn right. It's worth it. Jane says the same thing. At the end of Jane, she talks about what an amazing life it's been. I actually - I just realized this - I think she might even say I'd love to do it again. She says something along the lines of, like, I'd love to do it again is the final line of that film. Which is what Bowie says in Moonage. Obviously Kurt, you know, life was a struggle. You know, every day, it was kind of a - Montage of Heck is really the polar opposite of Moonage Daydream in every way, you know, really. But I do - I think that, you know, I've been very blessed that I've had these characters, I've got to make films about characters who love what they do. And are able to communicate that love to all of us, you know, and it's particularly, I think, coming after Montage, Jane was such a positive film, and I was not expecting Bowie to be as, you know - in a way, it's more upbeat than Jane, I think.
Matthew Sherwood 30:48
Well, I guess if you do make another film, are you going to - you'll have to find someone else, you'll have to find another one of these people who were of this - cut of the same cloth, I guess, in terms of their living life to the fullest, won't you?
Brett Morgen 31:06
Yeah, I like...
Matthew Sherwood 31:07
Where do you find...?
Brett Morgen 31:09
This is the trap. There's like, Oh, there's another Bowie. Like, we all like, Oh, yeah, you're right. I forgot about that person. There's amazing artists who I'd love to collaborate with; you know, there's people like Janelle Monae and incredible, younger artists who are so talented. But yeah, man; Bowie - once in a lifetime. Yeah, that was - the documentarian, this all in one - you know, to land that assignment was such a privilege.
Matthew Sherwood 31:47
Well, what I'll say is, at least for me, and whether it was what you intended or not, I just, I felt like for the first time I really understood - I wouldn't say understood, but appreciated, and really understand who Bowie really was. And still is.
Brett Morgen 32:04 (34:20)
You know, and again, that goes back to, I think - thank you. And I think that goes back to what we were talking about the beginning of the conversation about not trying to fit everything in. And so, by not trying to fit everything in, what you're able to do is get a context for these movements, which enable you to piece together this broad section of his career without feeling like it's Wikipedia; so, that, you're actually, if you're a casual Bowie fan, like I was going into this, you never read a book, you're like, Oh, wow, I guess if I'd read a book, I would have known that he abandoned songwriting, and went to Berlin, and did the thing, but I kind of never pieced that together. I didn't realize how extreme that was. And I didn't - I wasn't around at the time - I didn't realize that Let's Dance was a design - he had designed - he wanted to go into the mainstream as a social experiment. Like, I never, I didn't see it like that. And so. So, I - and again, if I had tried to mention every album, and every date, we would have never arrived at that sort of conclusion.
Matthew Sherwood 33:18 (35:33)
And I guess, finally, would you say that was an advantage that you came into this as a casual fan? If you had been a big, avid Bowie fan, would that have made it more difficult, you think?
Brett Morgen 33:05
I don't think so. I think, I mean, you know, given the fact that I was able to access his entire archive, I think even the most ardent, you know, well versed fan would have been in awe at the totality of his kindness and intelligence; like, it never faltered. It never - I mean, I'm looking at two years of media. This is like 1,000s and 1,000s of hours of this human being who - you know, if you're a hardcore fan before, you'd be like, Oh, yeah, he's the greatest but yeah, there's probably a moment or two where he's - it was, you know, people say, David's otherworldly. I started to feel he was otherworldly only because I didn't see the fallibility. I saw the vulnerability. I just didn't see the fallibility. I never - you know, 84-87 he goes off the rails a little bit but that was necessary [...] and he accepted it with grace and dignity.
Matthew Sherwood 34:37
As he, I guess, as my understanding is, how he approached his death as well. And so, even in death lived up to this as you say this infallibility. Brett, I think - I'm sure your assistants will be asking me to let you go because I know you've got another interview coming up, but just wanted to thank you again for coming on to the podcast with Factual America. It's very much appreciated - very, very much enjoyed our chat, and just to remind our listeners, we've been talking with Brett Morgen, director, editor, producer, and writer of the BAFTA nominated Moonage Daydream. Do check it out, you will be, I know, very impressed; and also follow Brett @brettmorgen on his Twitter account, and any other social media that he's active on. You're active on social media, Brett; so, thank you so much again. And good luck.
Brett Morgen 35:40
Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good night.
Matthew Sherwood 35:42
Yeah, you too. Take care. I also would like to thank those who help make this podcast possible. A big shout-out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio in York, England. Big thanks to Amy Ord, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show, and that everything otherwise runs smoothly. Finally, a big thanks to our listeners. Many of you have been with us for four incredible seasons. Please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas, whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. Please also remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 36:27
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures, specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk