Fernando Sulichin: Producer of JFK Revisited and Flag Day
Acclaimed producer Fernando Sulichin has built his career by working with film giants such as Spike Lee, David Lynch, Sean Penn, and Oliver Stone. Now Fernando has two films debuting at the Cannes Film Festival.
Flag Day is directed by and stars Sean Penn, while JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass is the latest documentary from director Oliver Stone.
JFK Revisited is the follow-up to Stone's political thriller JFK (1991) about the John F Kennedy assassination. Using recently declassified archives – part of a congressional review sparked by the 1991 film – JFK Revisited sheds new light onto this seminal event in American history.
Fernando talks about his partnership with Stone and how he has gained the trust of high-profile figures such as Fidel Castro, Nelson Mandela and Vladimir Putin. Fernando's strong passion for film comes through loud and clear and has him contemplating stepping behind the camera himself.
“It’s not about judgment, it’s about discovery.” - Fernando Sulichin
Time Stamps:
00:00 - Introducing our guest Fernando Sulichin.
02:31 - What JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass is about.
05:51 - The challenge of finding a buyer for the film.
09:00 - What it’s like working with Oliver Stone.
11:16 - The ways Stone has helped Fernando grow as a filmmaker.
12:44 - The issues with how biased the media has become in recent years.
15:47 - How Fernando gets access to people like Castro, Mandela and Putin.
17:28 - How he decides what questions he wants to ask his subjects.
24:06 - The traits most great directors have in common.
27:37 - The upcoming doc A Bright Future directed by Stone.
36:22 - The similarities between feature films and docs.
38:34 - How Fernando decides whether he will work on a film.
40:33 - The plans he has to get into directing in the future.
41:42 - The importance of being passionate about the film you’re making.
46:54 - The future humanitarian projects that he is working on.
49:52 - How Fernando got his start on Spike Lee's Malcom X (1992).
51:16 - How the film industry has changed in the last 50 years.
Resources:
Flag Day (2021)
JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass (2021)
JFK (1991)
The Putin Interviews (2017)
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Fernando Sulichin:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 68: Fernando Sulichin: Producer of JFK Revisited and Flag Day
Fernando Sulichin 00:01 Hi, I'm Fernando Sulichin, feature and documentary filmmaker, film producer, specifically.
Matthew 00:09 This is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood, and today we're talking with acclaimed producer, Fernando Sulichin, who has worked with film giants such as Spike Lee, David Lynch, Sean Penn, and Oliver Stone, just to name a few. Fernando has two films appearing at Cannes Film Festival this year: Flag Day directed by, and starring, Sean Penn, and JFK Revisited the latest doc from Oliver Stone. Fernando, welcome to Factual America. How are things for you? I gather you're in Moscow at the moment.
Fernando Sulichin 00:47 Yes, I'm in Moscow at the moment, getting ready to go to Cannes. Things are kind of hectic, but enthusiastic and happy about the new perspectives in this new, upcoming days, and in the post pandemic.
Matthew 01:05 Excellent. Well, we'll talk more about a lot of these things. I mean, just to remind our listeners and viewers that the two films you have at Cannes are JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, directed by Oliver Stone that debuts at Cannes, which runs from July 6th to 17th. And Flag Day, directed by, and starring, Sean Penn. Is that also making its debut at Cannes?
Fernando Sulichin 01:34 Yes. Nobody saw it, yet: both of them. So, welcome to the worldwide audiences in the real theater; not through Zoom, not through Boom; not through any platform. Sit in the dark, close our eyes, and let our heart and brain enjoy the show.
Matthew 02:01 Gosh, I long for those days. That's going to be nice. I mean, as you know, we're here at Factual America, and thanks again, it's a real honor to have you come on to the show.
Fernando Sulichin 02:11 It's really good for me.
Matthew 02:13 Well, the privilege is mine. Now, we do specialize in docs. So, if we could maybe start off by talking a little bit about this latest Oliver Stone doc, which I guess you're the executive producer, what is JFK Revisited about?
Fernando Sulichin 02:32 Well, basically, the film, I cannot say much contractually, because until the screenings comes out next week then I am free to speak.
Matthew 02:44 Okay.
Fernando Sulichin 02:45 Basically, Oliver, Mr. Stone, did this amazing film 30 years ago. And after that film, it created quite an incredible amount of controversy, and it created also desire to seek for the truth, what happened there. So, after the film, as well, they were open- the CIA archives. They were classified. So, basically, Oliver go into these archives, and analyzing the classified information when it was declassified. It's a great complement and follow up to the film he did 30 years ago.
Matthew 03:32 So that's, I mean, that is very interesting. I mean, is there, and I know you're not necessarily at liberty to share, and we don't want to have, you know, we don't want any spoiler alerts or anything, but what are viewers once they eventually get to see this, is there anything new that we didn't already know? Or is this really more about what the original film- the point it was making?
Fernando Sulichin 04:01 No. It's very new and quite juicy. So, I'm encouraging the mystery and the audience to look for the film. And to see, and first watch the original film. And after to watch this, because this is a perfect example of how fast history goes, and media cycles, and people don't stop to analyze what the real facts are. And Oliver, which is quite a meticulous character. He goes through, he does his homework. He does his thing. And now he comes with a conclusion, there to be seen.
Matthew 04:44 Alright, so I guess, I mean, as you're very well aware, I mean, critics without a doubt, say it's, you know, the original film is a classic drama. And yet, some will say Oliver Stone got his history wrong. That's at least what I remember the controversy at the time, but you would say that this film is addressing that criticism?
Fernando Sulichin 05:07 I mean, no; it has nothing to do with the criticism. It has to do more with the - it is not a corrected piece - it's a follow up piece with more facts, historical, documented, very square, green and clean facts.
Matthew 05:28 Okay, based on what was found by...
Fernando Sulichin 05:32 Exactly. By the CIA, and the discoveries that they were open.
Matthew 05:35 Okay. And now, have you found a home for this film yet? If you haven't, do you have a distributor, yet? Because I saw this interview with Spike Lee and Oliver Stone where basically he said, you know, Cannes was going to show it, but no one else would touch it.
Fernando Sulichin 05:52 No, I think that you have the quality of a filmmaker like Oliver, I'm not concerned about finding a home. I still believe that in the hearts of the buyers, there is very smart people, which they remember a film and they remember the facts, and they want to make honor to, you know, to these kind of films, not just be in a kind of a docu-drama, like, you know, actual fiction, like Jeffrey Epstein, or those kind of things that are trending now in the platforms. But this is a typical Oliver Stone, well documented situation, as we did - probably the best work I have done with Oliver, which is The Untold History of the United States.
Matthew 06:42 Hmm, that's very interesting. I mean, I do want to talk about your collaboration with Oliver in more detail, because I think, if I may refer to him as just by his first name, but I think because it's quite a partnership I think you have there, but, I mean, for some of us, it does seem a little odd that, you know - I agree with you, I hope you're right. I mean, I'm sure you're right, that eventually this will get seen, and certainly in the US, but is there - what do you think? Is that saying anything about the - I think maybe you've alluded to it - What is that saying, maybe about the film industry at the moment in terms of having that challenge of at least not finding a buyer for it yet?
Fernando Sulichin 07:34 I think that there is room for everyone. Like if you go to a supermarket, you have an aisle of organic food, you have an aisle of diabetic food. So, now, these big platforms are like big supermarkets where you can find pretty much everything. The only thing is for you to make people aware of these kind of things. Not just watching, you know, I mean, there had been some great documentaries lately, and some great documentary series lately. Like the Michael Jordan, even like entertaining ones, like Formula One or the one from Manchester City; so, the only thing is that this is another level, another level of filmmaker, another level of history, another level of facts. We're not looking for the drama, we're looking for - to set the story straight.
Matthew 08:34 Yeah. And, well, I think that takes, you know, as I said, you know, you have this - I mean, first of all, what is it like working with Oliver Stone? I mean, you have this longtime collaboration with him, certainly on documentaries, which probably I would argue don't get the attention that they deserve, to be honest.
Fernando Sulichin 08:56 Well, I think that, thank God, we're making films that's done with history. It's like we're making gourmet situations in a moment that people like digesting just fast food. So, it's like we're tailor made, and things that stand by itself, and they don't age; like, I've been watching documentaries lately, like it failed. Not a failed documentary, but I can experience the documentary that we did called Persona Non Grata on the conflict in the Middle East. I saw it a little while ago, and it's fascinating. So, I've had the experience of working with someone like Oliver. First, it's challenging because the level of exigence, creative exigence, and excellence of someone like him is all or nothing. So, we have to be on the ball. We cannot be lazy. We need to know about the subject. We need to be truly - he inspires you to be at your best. So, and he made me grow as a person, and as a filmmaker. So, that's beauty. That's very nice. He's not someone that it's just a job, you know; it's someone that, from his brain, came 11-10 masterpieces in film. From the idea of Tony Montana, you know, to Platoon, to - imagine, like, you know to write Midnight Express, you know, that's from his brain; I mean, imagine to collaborate, to have the chance, and the luck, to collaborate with someone like, you know, in his good days and in his bad days. So, for me that I choose film producing and documentary producing as a career is, you know, it's like, I hit the creative jackpot.
Matthew 11:09 I mean, as you mentioned, in what ways has he made you grow as a person? And a filmmaker, would you say?
Fernando Sulichin 11:17 He's a reference for excellence. He's not doing this for money. He's doing this because he's a seeker of the truth. So, in some films, he did very little, and he pushes for the best distribution, or sometimes with the underdog, or sometimes, things like that, but he's not doing this for the money. He's doing this, because he has a legacy. And that you can see his catalog. And to be able to be the developer of an architect like him. It's amazing.
Matthew 11:55 And, if you don't mind, let me zero in on one documentary in particular, which, I know you produced with him - you're there in Moscow, so, I might as well ask about it - The Putin Interviews. I mean, how did those come about, and maybe you can use that as a way of illustrating about how he approaches, and you approach, these subjects, because I think that's one that, I think like a lot of Oliver Stone things, there's a initial sort of media reaction, and then there's the- if people actually sit down and watch the, and don't just buy what others are telling them there's a very different, I mean...
Fernando Sulichin 12:42 You just say the problem, it's that we're living in a moment of just opinionated people, and not people that they create proposals or give answers. So, everybody is opinionated without seeing the problem. So, that's why - and especially in journalism, because in journalism, you have the interpretation of President Putin, or whoever, through the eyes of someone sitting in a desk, in an obscure newspaper, giving his opinion. But we go on and talk to the fellow, whoever is the subject, in this case President Putin, and we get to listen to his voice. We get to ask him the questions. We get to see what he has to say. And we get to demystify some things that the general media tried to install out of laziness. So, it's fascinating, because we discover someone, in general, could be with him, could be with others, like, we did something with Fidel Castro. It's really fascinating, you understand, like, we get to ask the questions to these persons that are, like - you know, comparing in a parallel way, imagine if you, when Mick Jagger wrote Satisfaction, if you're next to him, or, you know, and I don't know if he wrote it, but I think that maybe he did, how does it feel to be a Rolling Stone, and you're reliving that experience of being a Rolling Stone. So, it's a human experience, besides of learning from first hand, what's going on.
Matthew 14:35 Yeah, I mean, or any historical figure or any, you know, I mean...
Fernando Sulichin 14:40 It happened the same with Nelson Mandela; you know, I was petrified, like, you know, I met him a few times. I was petrified, like, what would I ask Mandela? I had lunches alone with Mandela for four hours, and I say, what do I have in common? What do I have to share? What can I ask him? How was jail? You know, like, you know, ridiculous but you have him in front. So, you're not opinionated, you're living the experience. My job is to facilitate that.
Matthew 15:14 I mean, so as you've already made reference to and, I mean, you certainly have, I mean, one of your many skills, I would say, is this knack for gaining access, certainly with powerful, or well known people, like Mandela, Castro, Putin, the big names- and even south of the border. Chavez, Morales. Lula, Kirchner. What is the key to that? I mean, these people could easily just say no.
Fernando Sulichin 15:46 First, everybody Hollywood seduces! Oliver Stone has a big aura of integrity. People are curious about Hollywood, as much as we're curious about world politics. So, if you can see dialog, and that you can see the screen, which is quite interesting, because it's between two people like Castro and Oliver. It was quite the chemistry because they were showing things to each other like to children, despite who Castro is, or what he did wrong, or what he did right. It's a human experience. Same with President Putin, or - with, you know, with Jim Jarmusch, I did a documentary with Iggy Pop. You know, and I never bought a record of Iggy Pop in my life. I knew the character, but I never knew his music. So, I got to learn basics. So, I got to experience these things. So, for me, it was a learning experience to be exposed to these people to get access, and to get a lot of access. Accessing means to ask him about his personal life, things that I will be curious about, or Oliver will be curious about. You know, it's not about judgment, it's about discovery.
Matthew 17:09 I mean, that's a very interesting point. I mean, do you sit there - if I was sitting at home, and I was going to stream this, or I was going to watch it on TV, what would the viewer want to know from this subject? And is that how you think about the questions to ask, or...?
Fernando Sulichin 17:27 Not really. It's what we want to know. We incorporate the viewer in a little bit because there is some myth about the person that we need to clarify.
Matthew 17:36 Right. Right.
Fernando Sulichin 17:37 In the case of President Putin, we clarify certain questions about - that viewers want to know about - homosexuality in Russia, or, you know, nuclear weapons or things like this. But bottom line is Oliver and his point of view on history. These are giants. These are people that they, you know, they stay on.
Matthew 18:03 Yeah. What I find interesting about - going back to Putin - I mean, he could have at any time, he could have shut down the filming, he could have said I've had enough, but this was, what, 20 hours over a couple years that you had with him? Yes. 36. I mean, yeah. That's amazing. Because it's not like, I mean, forget what the media react, how they reacted, or whatever, if you really, you know, you watch it, or if you read the, what I would say, the good critic- you know, the good reviews say, is that, I mean, you know, like you said, you do your homework; it's not like you don't ask him tough questions. You do.
Fernando Sulichin 18:45 The problem is that people, they don't want to listen to these answers. And that's the burden that you have is that people want to demonise things, according to the fashion of the moment. Oh, this one had the election. Oh, the other one is that. Oh, the other one is that. So, they prefer to have their point of view and to be right, than just to open their point-of-view and understand that, maybe, we're talking about other cultures, that is not Anglo Saxon, maybe we're talking about other different point of views. Maybe we're talking about things, young democracies, or whatever you want to call them, but they're not based on super parties- you understand they're super, super, you know, a big block situation like you have in the United States, which is different than in Russia or in other things, you know; the world is multi-cultural. We cannot just watch it through the eyes of one culture.
Matthew 19:57 Or even, as you know, in the US, I mean, or one political lens.
Fernando Sulichin 20:01 Yes.
Matthew 20:02 You know, and that's left and right, or however you want to describe it- everyone seeing things through a particular lens...
Fernando Sulichin 20:07 I'm quite bored about that.
Matthew 20:09 It is extremely boring. I don't even need...
Fernando Sulichin 20:15 ... there is a lot of double standard and hypocrisy about.
Matthew 20:22 I mean, to the point that, I mean, as someone who's a consumer, for various reasons of that media, I find myself - I don't even really need to check, I know exactly what one outlet's going to say. And I know what exactly one other out - the other person's going to say.
Fernando Sulichin 20:34 Yes. And they are going to demonise, and they gonna do this, and they gonna do that. But with that it's like, the world is one, we have a big house. Imagine like if you are in your house, and you are just insulting your mother-in-law all the time. You're not having a happy household. So, and especially now, we have a big challenge, which is global warming. So, the planet is going to melt. Unless we all together - together - have a solution and put our political differences aside. Bye Bye. Goodbye. No Greta. No novelty. No Al Gore. No, nothing is going to save you. And we have many signs about that.
Matthew 21:28 I think that's a good place to stop. We're going to give our listeners a bit of a break, and a chance for our sponsor to say something but we'll be right back with Fernando Sulichin, the acclaimed producer of many films, many docs, many narratives as well, but certainly JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass is one of the more recent ones: It's debuting at Cannes.
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Matthew 22:55 Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with acclaimed producer Fernando Sulichin. His two films debuting at Cannes in July: JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass, which we've already had a chance to discuss. We've also got narrative, Flag Day, directed, and starring, Sean Penn, also screening at Cannes in July. We've been talking about, certainly you're focusing on, your documentaries and work with Oliver Stone. But you've worked with a lot of giants on the- certainly the feature film, narrative side: Spike Lee, as we've already discussed, about Malcolm X; Sean Penn, David Lynch. I do want to get back to your point about the world, the environment, and how we all need to co-operate, but just briefly, if you may indulge me, I mean, in terms of working with these directors, I mean, what connects them? What common trait or theme makes them great filmmakers besides having you as a producer?
Fernando Sulichin 24:06 I think that they're all quite unstoppable, extremely free on their mind. Like, open-minded, and they're not afraid of failing... They all have a mission, these people, and their mission is not to buy a bigger house.
Matthew 24:40 Right. Right.
Fernando Sulichin 24:42 So, in the terms of Oliver Stone, he's a seeker of the truth, he's a historian. And he wants to set the record straight about the double standard. And to make people think about the other possibilities. He has some subjects like the empire, you know, like the greediness would be through Wall Street, you know; but he is a humanist, you know; someone like Sean Penn, is a poet, a painter, an artist, you know, who really is doing, like a Mother Teresa job in terms of his humanitarian efforts. This guy is a true hero. 100% hero. There is an earthquake, he goes, and he saves lives with his bare hands. There is a hurricane, he goes and rescue people in a boat. You name it, he's there. Someone like Spike Lee, 40 years of empowering black people for their own pride, and create a generation of filmmakers that he was the pioneer. And he fight left and right. David Lynch through his foundation. First, one of the most creative people in, you know, in the history of film from Elephant Man to Blue Velvet to, you know, and through his foundation, he's helping so many people through meditation in post traumatic disease, children. These are remarkable human beings. So, they're not there just to get a bigger house, or as I say, before, you know; they're there to make a difference. So, I'm glad that but by chance, or by coincidence, or by talent, I'm there helping them to do that.
Matthew 27:01 I mean, I guess it may sound odd to say, but I guess there's a humility there, isn't there.
Fernando Sulichin 27:08 Humility in what sense?
Matthew 27:10 In the sense of, well, I mean, maybe - I guess they're, you know, they're less self-. You know, I think so many, even people who aren't successful can be very, extremely self-indulgent or self-focused on self. And if you're less...
Fernando Sulichin 27:29 No, they are not there in a patrimonial situation, they're there because, like, I'm giving you an example. We're making a new documentary with Oliver, about climate change and nuclear energy called A Bright Future, which is what he's working on now. Full time. Non stop. Unstoppable. The commitment for him for something like this, is again, amazing. Someone like him, he could have retired. Or he could have enjoying his success in films or making another, you know, making another film or taking jobs like Fast and Furious 10 or things like this.
Fernando Sulichin 27:39 I would actually like to see that in an odd way!
Fernando Sulichin 28:19 And he really wants to make what he wants to make.
Matthew 28:22 Yeah, yeah. Since we're talking about - let's talk about this, because this is what you're working on now. I mean, do you have an idea of when this will be released? And what was the name of the film, again?
Fernando Sulichin 28:39 It's called A Bright Future.
Matthew 28:41 A Bright Future.
Fernando Sulichin 28:46 Hopefully, we're going to be finished around Sundance. Around Sundance, we're almost, almost there. But it's - basically, we're living in - the double standard doesn't apply only to history, it applied to climate change as well. People are talking about, you know, you don't need to be ultra-orthodox or vegan, or to understand that this is going to affect us all the amount of oil going. And what Oliver is proposing is, and what he's exploring, is first to make a check about what is the situation now? What are the solutions? And why are people not using other solutions? He's proposing other solutions, which includes nuclear energy, which is sometimes bad mouthed but he's explaining why this is one of the fastest and only solutions for us not to have a planet meltdown.
Matthew 29:54 Because I think - is that - I mean...
Fernando Sulichin 29:57 It's fascinating. You know, the more I learned, the more...
Matthew 30:00 Well, I think it - no, it sounds very fascinating. And I think it's, if it's in true Oliver Stone fashion, he's going to cut through a lot of the noise that surrounds this debate. As you know, as you're aware, there's loads of these films that have come out of various - that have either made a splash or not about the environment. But, we've even had segments where we've talked about, you know, some of them scare people to be honest, into a sense of almost not acting, if you will, or don't offer solutions, or offer solutions that aren't realistic. Is that what you see? This is the way this one, this is how your film is going to be different.
Fernando Sulichin 30:47 Our film is very practical. It's not just announcing. This is what needs to be done. It's like a doctor, giving you a recipe for something, this is what needs to be done. And the doctor, in this case, he will trust specialists in the field explaining exactly what needs to be done for people to start digesting some other solutions that are not just the conventional alternative energies. And with wind, and with solar, it's not enough.
Matthew 31:20 Well, yeah, yeah, indeed. So, basically, I guess, sounds like you've kind of worked backwards. This is the environment, if nothing is done, this is what we will face. And in order to get something done in time...
Fernando Sulichin 31:33 Yes. This is the next pandemic. And there is a big crisis because people in Europe or in America, they have the money to finance changes of infrastructure, but in the rest of the world, they don't. And you need to make new grids, new electricity things; how you're going to replace? How are you going to stop a kid from having a phone that he wants to get- whatever social media to relay? And how will you deprive him from him having electricity? And how are you going to generate electricity without creating a global catastrophe? So, that's what the film is about. Because you cannot stop. We cannot go Greta-style, which is fantastic but is hardcore. You know, we need to see solutions for people to keep using electricity, but for us to generate in a way that we don't drown, or get hurricane, or change the climate, or have the bees not having pollen anymore, or have a new generation of mosquitoes because, you know, the species are mutating or things like this.
Matthew 33:01 And so, in the end, a hopeful film, strikes me.
Fernando Sulichin 33:07 A very hopeful film with a hopeful conclusion because solutions are there are easier than people think. But fashion and media are making that environment is the flavor of the month. But then it's going to pass into something else. Like, you know, like, sometimes in Oscars, you see the flavor of the month that, you know, you have, we care about the American Indians, then next year, we care about the blacks, and next year, we care about this, and then we change. So, environment is the problem of today. But we don't want it to be a fashion we want it to be something that we all collaborate in the solutions, which are doable.
Matthew 33:56 Well, indeed, and I think the environment would have been called something different. But the environment's been the fashion before, and the problem with fashions is that then sometimes nothing happens, right?
Fernando Sulichin 34:07 Exactly. It's just a fashion. It fades into the next collection.
Matthew 34:14 And then but for the sake of future generations we've got act now.
Fernando Sulichin 34:17 We need to do it. If not, forget it. I have a son, you know, if I want him to enjoy what I work on, we better change. So, this is mostly for our next generations that we did this documentary.
Matthew 34:32 Yeah, I have to admit, personally, I used to say because I have children, and some teenagers, and I would say, 'Well, I think your generation is going to save the planet.' And now I'm realizing we can't wait for my teenagers.
Fernando Sulichin 34:48 Absolutely true.
Matthew 34:49 Yeah. That sounds like a great film, and I think it's - I think it's gonna surprise a lot of people that Oliver Stone's doing an environmental film.
Fernando Sulichin 34:59 He surprised me when he came with it! It surprises me that I'm working on this film for two years. All over the world, and I'm in Moscow.
Matthew 35:07 In Moscow, in Russia, is one of the places - is there a reason...?
Fernando Sulichin 35:13 It's one of the places that we film. We've been in France, we've been in America.
Matthew 35:18 Okay. Okay. Well, I think that's very exciting, and definitely look forward to seeing that. And I'm not, we're not done yet. But certainly, if when that film comes out, we'd love to have you back on.
Fernando Sulichin 35:39 With pleasure. And I think that Oliver should be interviewed by you.
Matthew 35:43 Would love to have Oliver on, sometime.
Fernando Sulichin 35:45 I'm going to suggest it to him next week when I see him in Cannes.
Matthew 35:50 Please do. And that would be an honor. I've seen some interviews with him, recently; I think he's very magnanimous with his time. And it would certainly be an honor. So, I definitely, definitely appreciate that. I mean, kind of like Oliver, you both have done dramatic features. And also documentaries. Do you have a preference? Or increasingly can we even separate it?
Fernando Sulichin 36:18 To be honest, I really like documentary. I love feature. But I love to watch feature. Because to make a great feature is very, very difficult. It's like to create outstanding music. Only a few can do it. So, not every song you write is outstanding. So, sometimes we hit. I'm quite proud of the films, some of the films I made, you know, or I collaborate. But it's quite difficult. It's quite challenging.
Matthew 36:18 But I guess there's no longer - because I think, you, Oliver Stone, and some others have shown this - there used to be this sort of either you did documentaries, or you did feature. But I think you've shown, I mean, a good filmmaker's a good filmmaker.
Fernando Sulichin 37:21 You need to express yourself. So, also, for example, the films that Oliver makes, which are quite a big story, you need quite a budget, and you don't want to compromise. So, until you don't get the conditions necessary for you to express your ideas or your point-of-view, or a script that you really like, why not expressing yourself in another media that - and we have fun, you know, it's a great, great ride that we had, for the last 15-20 years, doing all these interviews, all these documentaries, or, you know, again, like, if I show my son and do the, you know, to your kids, the actual history of America, I have good film karma for the next 50 years. So, I am allowed to make bad films.
Matthew 38:12 That Fast and Furious 10 one you were talking about!
Fernando Sulichin 38:12 I can make anything; anything bad, and I will be in the film purgatory; I go direct to hell!
Matthew 38:27 And, I mean, so you must be in a position to say 'no' to a lot of projects these days.
Fernando Sulichin 38:32 Yes, I do.
Matthew 38:33 Unless, Oliver, of course, mentions...
Fernando Sulichin 38:35 I do say 'no' to a lot of things.
Matthew 38:37 I mean, what unifies... go ahead.
Fernando Sulichin 38:39 If I say no, I'll have one question... it's so exhausting to make a film; physically consuming to make a film that now I need to take care of my energy. So, it's only because of that, if not, I will do 10-20 films a year. I did four in the past, four a year in the past, you know, when I was in my 30s. Now, I prefer to go to the gym in the morning or to watch a bad series on internet.
Matthew 39:18 But is there a theme that unify- I mean, you know, whether it's narrative, whether it's, you know, whether it's feature or doc, is there a theme that sort of unifies the projects that you will say, 'yes', to?
Fernando Sulichin 39:34 It depends on the moment in time and history. I have done many films ego-based, because I thought, and I had the illusion that this is going to change my life forever; then, two years later... I lost a lot of money, and it changed my life for the worse. Film is a very illusionary meaning; sometimes, you feel you're a better person because you're a filmmaker. Not anymore. So, people out there in the movie industry, they believe that they have superpowers. Oh, I mean, you know, and people look at you, like, oh, you're in - like, I was in Argentina last week. Oh, you're in Hollywood, you're, you know, like, you're better. And we're all the same.
Matthew 40:24 Yeah. And, I mean, have you ever been tempted to direct, because you've always been, a producer?
Fernando Sulichin 40:33 I have been tempted to direct. I'm planning to direct when I get a little bit more of energy, especially by, listen, by all these monsters, I watch day-by-day, I edit next to them, or, you know, or get inspired, you know, by osmosis, I may have done a good film, you know, just by magnetic illumination. But, let's see when comes out, you know, let's see what it comes out. I'm curious to see what it manifests for me. I don't know. I certainly know the people that could make me not - the crew that could make me not embarrass myself.
Matthew 41:15 Exactly. So, what is the key to being - I mean, we have a lot of directors come on, obviously, often, they have a producer credit, but we don't often get people, I wouldn't say exclusively producers, but that has been your, certainly your bread and butter, what makes a good producer? What has been the key to helping you work with people like, you know, or making sure you surrounded yourself with people like Oliver Stone, and Spike Lee?
Fernando Sulichin 41:41 You need to - even if you disagree; first, you need to have a very strong - your point of view: it needs to come from your heart. So, when you're against something, or when you get bored in your own film, you need to fight it, but not because of the audience; it's because you fall asleep in your own film. It could happen, you know. It happens. Or, did you see the editing is a disaster, you need to be brutal, and say it's not because you're against the director, or you know better than the director; it's because sometimes, it happens, you know, it's, like, you know, why not. So, your point of view is as valid as whatever. And second, you need to support them to go to the best of their abilities. Without thinking about is the distributor is going to like it, or - the moment that you embark yourself with a director like this level or this caliber, or anyone that you understand that has this track record, you know that you're making a film by them. A film by them could be a masterpiece, or could be a misfit. So, if it's a misfit, you choose this director, or you choose to spend your time with the director, so you need to take it that you could have done that better. Or, that he could have done that better. Or, she- let's put it in another way, you know; we don't know, but you need to get to the best of their abilities, you need to potentiate themselves to the maximum. It's not that you need to get your version of the film, you need to get the best version of the film they can. And then that's my job. Of course, I have a lot of help. I hide myself between - below me, or next to me, there is a lot of unbelievable people that do the day-to-day, extremely academic, extremely knowledgeable. So, I have the tools to contribute with this. I have an amazing team.
Matthew 43:56 I think that's a very good point, and that's true of any profession you're in; if you are surrounding yourself with people who are professionals, and dedicated to their work and, you know, their jobs, and things like that, it just makes things so much better, doesn't it.
Fernando Sulichin 44:17 Yes. And the beauty is that sometimes, with these people, I don't need to even talk to them. They know where we're going. He says, do we know where we're going? The most important thing is that we're making these films for us and for the public, not for the historical moment of now. It's not an apology because it's not an apologetic thing. Like, they tried to censor us many times; networks, they tried - they censor one film. Comandante was censored by HBO.
Matthew 44:38 Is that right?
Fernando Sulichin 44:54 Of course. It was quite a funny experience of me that I come from a country that they used to censor. Having been censored in the US that was like a Congress medal, you know, filmmaking.
Matthew 45:12 Interesting. It's maybe a crude analogy, but almost reminds - you were making reference to even the sports docs and Jordan. I mean, it's almost like, you know, you hear great football players, soccer players, or basketball players all say they can't - you know, they have a love of the game, they love what they do, and they can't even believe they're getting paid to do it. And I guess it must be kind of similar; as you say, you're making these films, you know, you're making these incredible films that stand the test of time. And then, well, at the end of the day, you make a decent living out of it.
Fernando Sulichin 45:54 Yes. And especially when sometimes, like, for example, we have the conscience of, like, the film of interviews with Putin, you know, like, The Putin Interviews; that was a big commercial success. So, you know, we found a great audience. So, we hopefully, we keep making those. And, you know, we keep opening the minds of Americans, of English, or anyone, you know, that we can.
Matthew 46:26 Humanity.
Fernando Sulichin 46:27 Yeah, we try. We try. At least we try, you know.
Matthew 46:29 Yeah. Exactly. Well keep trying, I really appreciate it. I mean, you've already mentioned A Bright Future, the film you're doing with Oliver Stone, next. What is next for you? Beyond - and we've talked a little about maybe doing some directing, but is there - I know you also have a lot of philanthropic activities; is there...? What are you working on next? Or can you even think that far?
Fernando Sulichin 46:54 At the moment, I'm more focused on the philanthropy than in the films, because we're in a pandemic, so, I need to support different foundations, which are member and board member, you know, to take the fish out of the water, like, you know, getting vaccines to countries that they don't have access to vaccines, and vaccinating, and then contributed with, like, with David Lynch Foundation... things like this, which are important because we are so lucky. And we so privileged that we need to remember that there is a lot of people that they don't have this privilege, and we're not there to behave like pigs. We need to share.
Matthew 47:51 And I think you raise a very good point. I mean, the whole pandemic, vaccination, I mean, we're setting ourselves up for this to speed recovery; in fact, one part of the world is not even going to recover, because they're not even getting vaccinated, and we're so focused on it in the West, and, but, you know, there's, you know, we are part of one world and we can be vaccinated, but if the other half isn't, that's just gonna, you know, we're all in this together.
Fernando Sulichin 48:25 If you have a toe that hurts, your body's hurting. So, we're all one. And we need to remember that... we need to live in a holistic point of view.
Matthew 48:39 Exactly. I think we're coming to the end of our time, unfortunately. But, Fernando, it's been great having you on.
Fernando Sulichin 48:47 It's been a fast hour, eh?
Matthew 48:49 Well, I'm glad you agree. Yes, it has been a fast hour. I'm looking at - I got a little timer over here, and I can't believe how long it's been. But we've really enjoyed having you on. Best of luck at Cannes.
Fernando Sulichin 49:01 Thank you.
Matthew 49:01 I have a feeling we're going to be hearing a lot...
Fernando Sulichin 49:03 I hope I come back with the same weight as I went in because the croissants in France are quite delicious.
Matthew 49:09 Yeah. And not just the croissants, I think. I'm sure that's going to be a great, great festival. Is that the first festival you've been to in person in a while?
Matthew 49:23 Well, 28th Cannes, but the first one since - first festival for you since the pandemic.
Fernando Sulichin 49:23 No, the 28th Cannes festival.
Fernando Sulichin 49:30 Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Matthew 49:31 Yeah.
Fernando Sulichin 49:32 I'm looking forward to it.
Matthew 49:33 I know. I mean, you know, as much as Zoom is great - you and I get to have this chat - it doesn't really replace being face-to-face with people but 28 times at Cannes; you must know the place like the back of your hand.
Fernando Sulichin 49:50 I was very, very, very young. I started my career very young. I was associate producer for Malcolm X when I was 25. So...
Matthew 50:00 How did you get - I mean, if may ask, because I know you've relayed this story a few times, a lot of people ask about it, and you got a film crew into Mecca and places like that. But how did you score that? You know, at 25, I think fresh out of film school. How did you get onto Malcolm X?
Fernando Sulichin 50:18 Pure unconsciousness. It was divine destiny, let's put it that way. And hard work, of course. I was... instead of lost, at that age, I was found, and I was quite unstoppable. So, I was decided to, I didn't want to go back to Argentina and be, you know, like, have a bourgeois life, and a traditional suburban living. I wanted to make something of myself. I didn't know what. So, I met Spike Lee, we connected and he took me on.
Matthew 50:57 I will ask one more question. I've seen reference to the fact that you made and I think in a different interview, but said that was a very different time, the 80s, and the 90s, weren't they. You talk about a...
Fernando Sulichin 51:11 The films in the 80s and the 90s?
Matthew 51:13 Yeah, or just that it was a different - the industry was so different.
Fernando Sulichin 51:16 Yeah. The industry was - now it's so quotas on ethics committee, it's kind of a new McCarthyism. There they were wild people that they were coming from the 70s, and the 80s. Imagine a hairdresser became the president of Columbia Pictures. And he created movies like Rain Man, Batman, Midnight Express: Jon Peters, which is alive, or someone like Mario Kassar, which he was a Lebanese salesman that created Rambo, you know, Basic Instinct, Terminator. Those guys, they were wild, wild thinking; they were amazing. And they are amazing, and they're alive. And they're cool. So, they were not constrained by politically correctness this, or this and that; and those films, they stand by standard, huge references of Scorsese. At that time, when he made those films, he was out of his brain. In a good way, you know, the creative energy of those people. They were not the flavor of the month. You know, they were enjoying life. Now, a little bit too much into ego-limitation, how much you have, and, you know, that kind of thing.
Matthew 52:56 Yeah, I mean, I won't name names, but we've had people on who've talked about working with one of the big streaming services or whatever platforms, and they felt like the main people they were - they weren't liaising with filmmakers, it was mostly marketeers and things like that. I mean, I think there's - I understand some of that, why that's done.
Fernando Sulichin 53:16 That's why I'm not taking chances. I'm only working with people, which I'm going to have a good time with.
Matthew 53:24 I think that's the best piece of advice for anyone no matter what.
Fernando Sulichin 53:29 Because bottom line that translates into the film. Like, groups of people even now, like the Jude Apatow, like, you know, like all these Pineapple Express. It's a group of people having a good time that they know each other. So, those guys that are making reference in the 80s, or the 90s, you understand all that. Terminator or Total Recall. They're insane films. Great. You love those films. Like you like JFK, you like, you know, you like JFK was done by an Israeli, you know, dealer of whatever, you understand; Arnon Milchan who created Pretty Woman. Now it's quite dull. People are afraid of their own shadow, you know, it's like, you know, if you curse in a Zoom in a streamer, they, you say the word 'fuck'; they fire you.
Matthew 54:37 I won't say it because I might get fired. No, I'm just joking! But I know.
Fernando Sulichin 54:42 It's not - come on, you understand, this is the creative industry. This is not just -.
Matthew 54:48 It's as if we've forgotten what it means to be human.
Fernando Sulichin 54:52 Yes, of course, we have differences and we, you know, we - it's not like, you know, I respect race, diversity, gender, trans whatever. But let's make great films. That's what we're about, not just doing a quarter. Thank you for your time; thank you very much.
Matthew 55:15 Thank you so much.
Fernando Sulichin 55:16 My pleasure.
Matthew 55:16 I'd love to have you on again, and good luck. Good evening.
Fernando Sulichin 55:22 Thank you. We'll talk soon.
Matthew 55:24 Okay, and do svidaniya.
Fernando Sulichin 55:25 Thank you. Bye bye.
Matthew 55:27 Bye. See ya. So, I just want to give a big thank you again to Fernando Sulichin, the executive producer of JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass; premieres at Cannes Film Festival in July, also premiering is Flag Day, which is directed by, and starring, Sean Penn, which we didn't even really get a chance to discuss, but be on the lookout for that, too. Big shout out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio, in Escrick, North Yorkshire, England. Big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures who ensures we continue getting such great guests like Fernando onto the show. And finally, a big thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. Whether it is on YouTube, social media or directly by email. And please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 56:25 You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures, specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter @alamopictures. Be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is @alamopictures.co.uk