The Space Station: The Wonderful Story of Human Co-Operation
International Space Station and international co-operation in space has outlived presidents, regimes, current events, 9/11, and it has been carrying on for several decades now.
It is fascinating how many people it takes to get someone into space. This is what inspired director and producer Clare Lewins in her new documentary The Wonderful: Stories From the Space Station.
The Wonderful is a story about humanity, played out against the vast backdrop of the universe. It shows what it’s like to live and work in space, hurtling through space 250 miles above the Earth’s surface.
Clare Lewins shares with us the difficulties she faced making this film, and amazing stories from some of the astronauts she met during filming.
“It’s a fundamental part of human DNA to want to explore and want to push boundaries.” - Clare Lewins
Time Stamps:
00:00 - The trailer for The Wonderful: Stories From the Space Station.
04:13 - What the film is about and how the idea for it came around.
06:32 - The amount of international collaboration that goes into space exploration.
09:25 - The lack of knowledge most people have about the Space Station.
10:45 - Common personality traits astronauts have.
17:00 - What it’s like to be in space.
19:50 - The importance of sound and music in film.
24:24 - What it’s like for an astronaut’s family when they go into space.
26:27 - How long the Space Station will continue operating and how you can see it.
29:00 - The difficulties of having such a subject for a documentary film.
34:40 - Clare’s background in film and documentary filmmaking.
39:50 - What makes a good documentary.
Resources:
The Wonderful: Stories From the Space Station (2021)
The Astronaut Maker
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Clare Lewins:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 73: The Space Station: The Wonderful Story of Human Co-Operation
Clare Lewins 00:00
My name is Claire Lewins, and I'm director of the film The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station.
Speaker 1 00:20
Throughout all history, humankind has had only one place to call home: our planet Earth. This year, men and women from 16 countries will actually set sail on an uncharted sea of limitless mystery and unlimited potential.
Speaker 2 00:47
What space station provides is our chance to become a spacefaring civilization.
Speaker 3 00:58
You know, you think, 'Ah, that guy's an astronaut, he must have been the smartest kid in the class.' That was not me.
Speaker 4 01:05
[Translated: Like all boys, we'd look up into the sky. We'd read books, including the ones about space travel.]
Peggy Whitson 01:11
I applied to be an astronaut for a course of 10 years before I was selected.
Speaker 5 01:16
Peggy Whitson rocketing towards the International Space Station.
Singer 01:22
[Singer] How does it feel to be on your own?
Speaker 6 01:26
There's billions of people on the planet, and there's only six of us right now that are not.
Speaker 7 01:31
It was tough to be separated from the family.
Singer 01:36
[Singer] Hanging around on the edge of the world.
Speaker 8 01:40
Everybody wanted to know about the risk.
Singer 01:43
Finally no-one around.
Speaker 8 01:44
You're trusting engineers who designed and built that spacecraft. Everything's got to work if you're gonna survive.
Speaker 9 01:52
How's it going?
Speaker 10 01:54
Well, Frank, we're not having a very good day down here on Earth.
Speaker 11 01:56
It's difficult to describe how it feels to be the only American off the planet at a time such as this.
Speaker 12 01:58
It's my planet, I want to protect it. You feel like the sentinels that are guarding the Earth.
Singer 02:05
[Singer] Solid ground...
Speaker 13 02:12
Seeing the planet without borders. You see, we're all part of the same team: Team Earth.
Singer 02:19
[Singer] Solid ground...
Speaker 14 02:19
We're gonna go to the moon. If we're gonna go to Mars, the only way to do that is to do it together.
Speaker 15 02:26
As the rocket goes higher up into the sky, there's this burst of light. It's amazing to think that that pinpoint of light is someone that you love.
Speaker 16 02:36
[indistinct speech] ... This is 19. Yes, I have you loud and clear. Everything's good on our side. Congratulations.
Matthew 02:56
That is a trailer from the documentary The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station. And this is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Welcome to the third season of Factual America. If you don't know the drill already, each week, I watch a hit documentary, and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week we're in for a real treat, as we hear about what it's like to live and work hurtling through space 250 miles above the Earth's surface. Joining us to discuss her film about the International Space Station is Claire Lewins, acclaimed director of The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station. Claire, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Clare Lewins 03:41
Things are very good with me. And thank you, and your audience, for showing an interest in our film.
Matthew 03:46
Well, it's a pleasure. The film is The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station, released earlier this month, September 2021, can be found on all digital platforms. Claire, I mean, give our audience a little taste of what is The Wonderful all about; maybe a little synopsis.
Clare Lewins 04:08
Well, that's quite a hard question. Well, basically, if I just take you back a little bit, the idea of making a film about the space station, George Chignell, the producer of the film, she said, 'Let's meet up for lunch; you know, I've had this idea, or an idea brought to me'. And she's, 'I won't tell you what it's about till we have lunch'. And then when she told me, I thought, Oh, no, this isn't for me, because I'm not good with science or engineering. And then, when I started looking into it, I realized that it's really fascinating about all the human connections, how many people it takes to get someone into space. And so, the film really became about Man's humanity, all played out against this vast backdrop of the universe.
Matthew 04:55
Well, that's, I mean, it's very interesting. I mean, a lot of things struck me about this film. And, you know, it's this idea of this - first of all, I would be remiss in saying that, if not mentioning, that this is the 58th anniversary of John F. Kennedy's UN address, where he basically proposed the original idea of co-operation between countries, in that case, the US and Soviet Union to co-operate on space exploration. So, that was quite, that was quite revealing, I found.
Clare Lewins 05:34
Yes, I hadn't actually realized that. When I was looking at the people to interview I wanted to interview George Abbey, because he is such, you know, he has a book written about him called The Astronaut Maker, he, you know, he's been across so much space exploration. And when I spoke to him, he actually said, you know, with JFK, it was always his plan to go together into space with the Russians. And he'd written a letter to Congress. And I thought that was absolutely fascinating. So, that was kind of how I sort of started the film, really.
Matthew 06:10
So, that the other thing is that strikes me, Claire, is that this international co-operation has outlived presidents, regimes, current events, 9/11; we've had Washington and the Kremlin at odds, yet this just carries on and has been for several decades now. Is that right?
Clare Lewins 06:32
Well, I think one of the things that struck me was the actual amazing level of international collaboration; obviously, maybe at higher level, you get issues, but when someone like Ginger Kerrick says, when she was working in Russia, you know, Kazakhstan, says that, you know, if somebody hadn't told her about the space race, she wouldn't have known about it. Because, if we think about it, all of the cosmonauts, astronauts, they rely on each other; I mean, if they're in space, and there's arguments and things that, you know, your life depends on your colleagues so that the actual collaboration is certainly very strong.
Matthew 07:12
And I mean, I hadn't thought of this but, you know, we don't see any signs of strife or falling out of space station. I mean, in doing your interviews, it seems like what we see is what we get, is that right? I mean, in terms of - it's amazing this level of collaboration both on the individual level, and the international level.
Clare Lewins 07:36
I think there must be tensions, of course. I mean, if you put humans into space or put humans into a lift or in a cave, there's going to be personalities and tensions rise: nothing to do with the international side of it. I mean, that's the thing; I mean, I would be awful in space, I would just, it wouldn't suit me at all, you know, I'd have to be sort of knocked out, probably. I went to talk to Samantha Cristoforetti about what makes a good astronaut and it's not to be extreme, really; you obviously have to have all the skills and be intelligent and everything else, but in personality terms, you can't be too much of anything; you can't be too introverted and you can't be too extrovert you just kind of keep calm, so - they're trained so well. But I'm sure that, you know, there would be, you know, if somebody is taking your toothpaste you're going to still feel annoyed.
Matthew 08:35
Exactly! Or your... whatever your packet of food that you get to eat or your favorite lunch that has been prepared, or whatever, I think. I mean, the other thing that struck me as I was talking to some other people about this after I'd seen the film is that it seems like this is, unfortunately, no longer newsworthy, I mean, in the sense that we have, you know, the space station flies over our head every 90 minutes or so. We can see it with the naked eye - I now realize I probably have seen it - it wasn't a UFO. You know, but we carry on as usual. And back to your point about the astronauts. I mean, shouldn't these people be - they should be heroes, they should be household names, but we don't, for most of us, we don't know who they are.
Clare Lewins 09:24
That's true. I mean, even when I first started approaching the film, I hadn't really - I mean, this is a terrible thing to say but I hadn't really given it much thought, you know, I only know about Apollo 11, Apollo 13, Yuri Gagarin but I hadn't really - and it's the fact that when I found out that they were - while all, you know, 7.5 billion of us were doing our everyday, going around our everyday lives, there's six people off the planet. I just thought that was just extraordinary. So, that's what really hooked me into it. To think that is quite an unusual thing to be going on. And the fact, as you say, that we've taken it, sort of, in a way, for granted, it's become part of our everyday. They wouldn't want to see themselves as heroes; they take their role extremely seriously. Space Exploration and sort of using the space station really as a revolving laboratory. But trying to find out if humans can go further, that's what seems to be the key of it.
Matthew 10:21
I mean, as you've pointed out, you've mentioned a few things they have in common, what are some of the, in interviewing them and getting to know them, I mean, what did you discover that you didn't know before in terms of sharing common traits, I guess, you know, personalities, or maybe they're very unique. Maybe there's quite a diversity of personalities, I imagine. They're just like the rest of us in that way.
Clare Lewins 10:44
Well, what I thought I'd find was that they were much cleverer than us. Sorry, I say about myself. Certainly braver than me. And that is the case: they are very brainy. But what I hadn't thought about, or actually occurred to me, was they're incredibly persistent people that people just keep trying, you know, like, Peggy, I think, Peggy Whitson got knocked back 10 times by NASA, and she just was that farmer's stubborn as she calls it, and kept going. And it just sort of - resilience and determination to keep going that I kind of found quite moving really.
Matthew 11:27
I think that was a commonality, at least most of the people that feature - most of the astronauts and cosmonauts that feature - in this film is that they did try many years, some of them. I think 10 years feels like almost the average in terms of trying to knock on doors and keep applying and keep persistently pursuing this. What is the - is it Scott Kelly, is that who...?
Clare Lewins 11:55
Scott Kelly.
Matthew 11:56
Yeah, I mean, his story is very interesting, too, where he was in terms of almost dropping out of college, basically, and he and his twin brother, I mean, that is another story of sort of resilience and stick-to-itiveness, if you will.
Clare Lewins 12:13
Yes. I mean, Scott Kelly is the first to admit that he was completely distracted at school; you know, he'd be looking - he's staring out the window, and one day, he'd be sort of staring out the window and thinking, 'Oh, I go home on my skateboard'. And then it was a bike, and then it was a car. And then it was a plane. And then it was a rocket, you know, he's constantly imagining speed and doing different things.
Matthew 12:34
And, I think, I mean, I guess the other thing is that - another thing that's, I mean, they're of a certain age, whereas you've already mentioned the Apollo missions, but they all seem to have been inspired by Apollo or Soyuz, in the case of the Russians. And the other thing that struck me is they all seem to have grown up, many of them at least, where they could see the stars. You know, they all talk about being able to - rural Iowa or Alpine Italy or West Sussex, if you will, and being able to see the night sky, which was something that really impressed them when growing up.
Clare Lewins 13:18
I think so. The one exception to that, of course, is Koichi Wakata, who really didn't have any Japanese role models in the sense of space exploration to follow. So, I mean, he was just brilliant the way he just sort of thought, right, I'm going up into space, you know, but the others it's true, you know, Peggy, in a way a bit like, I always think of her as like the ruby slippers, you know, The Wizard of Oz. She's in this rural community, just staring up at the sky and just thinks well, I'm going to go up there. And the same with Samantha looking at the night sky. I always find it extraordinary because I love looking at the night sky but it has never occurred to me once in my life to leave the planet. And that's a real different mindset to have the courage to do that.
Matthew 14:08
I mean, I just wondered, too, do we think maybe light pollution's making us less interested in space. I mean, you have some amazing footage and imagery but we no longer look to the stars; and light pollution, I mean, even the lights from our mobile phones and devices and things.
Clare Lewins 14:24
Well, I don't think it makes us less interested in space. If you look at, you know, SpaceX and what's going on now people are still - it's a fundamental part of human's DNA, I think, to want to explore to want to push the boundaries. You know, if you think of the Vikings looking at the night skies when they're going along in their ships and they're navigating by the stars, or the aborigines. It's, you know, and you go inside caves and you find drawings of sort of planets and constellations. I think it's something that's fundamental to us. I don't think the light pollution is going to stop that.
Matthew 14:57
Okay, well, I hope not. And I think it's again one of these films, I think that could besides Apollo and then subsequent missions in the space station, I mean, I think this is something that your film that can inspire future generations to carry on and do like these astronauts, and cosmonauts. I think we're gonna give our listeners an early break. And then we'll be right back with Claire Lewins director of The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station, released earlier this month, September 2021, on digital platforms.
Factual America midroll 15:37
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Matthew 15:55
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm with acclaimed director Claire Lewins who's just released The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station, released this month, September 2021, on digital platforms. I think it's on limited theatrical release in the US for our US listeners, which there are many. As rightfully so, the focus is on the astronauts and cosmonauts of these programs, the NASA, European Space Agency, certainly, Roscosmos. What is your feel? What is it like to be up there in space? Your film shows that brilliantly, but for our listeners as they haven't had a chance to see the film. I mean, it's the usual questions. It's just, you have to get on with the day-to-day of life while you're doing all these experiments and stuff; what is it like up there?
Clare Lewins 16:59
Well, I can only sort of comment on that second-hand, of course, because astronauts say it better than me because they've been there, but from what I gather, first of all, they really, really want to be in space. I mean someone like Peggy, who got the nickname Space Ninja. I mean, she loves it. She cannot, in fact she reached her radiation levels, as she says at the end of my film. But she's going up again, she will be going up again with a private company so she just loves it. And the idea that you can float through space; when you see Koichi Wakata, you know, sort of poetically, sort of doing little acrobatic somersaults, and he's playing baseball with himself. I think the floating side of it, they love. A lot of them are very serious scientists and engineers, who've got quite a strict regime of things they have to do in the day. I mean, Scott Kelly said, it's called chasing the blue-line; you know, mission control on the ground, every single second is accounted for. They've got this, you know, little rest time, exercise. And I think when he came back after a year in space, he found it quite difficult just to have nothing to do. He kept thinking, 'But what am I to do for this next hour? Like just, you know, sit on my sofa?' So, it's quite regimented. But within that, the thing they all talk about, is that they love looking in the cupola and looking back on Earth, because in the early days, I think I'm right in saying, Expedition 1 with Bill Shepherd, Yuri [Gidzenko], and [Sergei] Krikalev, they didn't have that observation window. They didn't have that perspective on space.
Matthew 18:56
I mean, there's that - again, I will talk more about it in a little bit, but the footage and everything, it's just absolutely amazing that we get and see, and what it must be like up there. I mean, as you've already said, one thing they, I think they stressed was how, you know, we're used to seeing things on Earth, with air filtering things and things are so much brighter and clearer when you're out of the atmosphere. And I think that is, again, it's like it's almost, well, surreal is the wrong word. But it's almost, you know, just that's something else, I think they also mention.
Clare Lewins 19:33
They talk about the beauty. And the other thing that was quite important to me in the film is about sound because, you know, when I asked Tim Peake to describe what it was like to go on a spacewalk, and I said, describe it, you know, viscerally. And he was saying, you know, when you go into that air pressure lock, you can't hear anything, you can bang your helmet and you won't hear anything. And then when you go out - finally, step out, should be terrifying, you can hear the whirr of your breathing equipment but nothing else. And so, that's why each story in the film is introduced by sound so with Tim Peake it's the sound of the ocean near where he grew up in West Sussex; with Samantha Cristoforetti, it's the sound of her boots on the snow, you know, again, where she grew up. And Peggy, it's a sound a little fly going over the crops. So, each, because I want to show how important sound is and also trying to show the beauty of the earth, really.
Matthew 20:36
Well, you raise that, and it was a question I was gonna ask you later because it's obviously - it does come across that sound plays a very active role in telling this story. Including a, but I found it a very, very amazing soundtrack actually. And does this go, I mean, you had a, I think you were producer on a film about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar that won an Outstanding Music Emmy. So, is that something that you bring to your filmmaking that you're very, I mean, sound, we know, is one of the three pillars of film. But is this something that's really important to you, when you're making a movie?
Clare Lewins 21:13
It is, actually. I mean, music is my passion. And I - somebody the other day said, 'Oh, I always know it's one of your films because of the music'. And I think if you can understand music; well, actually, if you can feel music, you can feel emotion. And if you can feel emotion, you can get what I'm trying to do with a story. And I was very, very lucky we had - we worked with Ben Foster this composer who's brilliant. And so, we'd work together. And I'd say, 'Oh, I don't want this scene with Samantha to be like this, and he would compose round it. One of the pieces of music I love was Tchaikovsky, Hymn to the Cherubim. That's the bit when Cady Coleman takes off in Russia, with her family. And it's this amazing, sort of biblical, powerful piece of music. And we use that as the sort of theme. Ben has composed into that. And then on top of that, of course, I love having songs that are relevant to the people; like, I really felt Scott Kelly, when he went up in the shuttle, he needed something sort of 70s hard-hitting; you know, Mr. Blue Sky, ELO. And also, Nick Cave wrote this fantastic song called Bright Horses, which spoke to when Samantha said she saw the horses in the Russian planes with their manes on fire. And I just thought that would be brilliant. So, there's songs in there. And also, what you were saying about everyday things, the beginning of Ken Bowersox's story. Before he hears of the tragedy, he's actually hoovering up - they do Saturday to do their cleaning, and that makes me laugh to think that on Saturday, everybody's doing their cleaning, even if you're in space. And for that particular scene, we use Moon River when he was driving along thinking about how he got into space. And then when they're doing the hoovering the editor who's fantastic, my editor, Reg Wrench, he knocked it back as if it was through a radio in space, you know, Moon River. You know, so music is very important to me.
Matthew 23:21
What I liked about it was, you know, sometimes music can just, some people are a bit bashful about music in a film, I think, and it's just sort of there in the background. But I think this is, it has those elements, but there's certainly - it's right there. It feels like another character in the film. But you've just mentioned something about the families and stuff. And what is, I mean, if we talk a little bit more about the life and what this all means for those involved, I mean, you've already mentioned all the people that have to work together in order to make this happen, but what about the strains on the families you have some interest in - and you also have some great segments there about different - well, the families and the relationships and how this works and some great, powerful women's stories in here as well. So, maybe you can tell us a little bit more about that, if you don't mind.
Clare Lewins 24:24
Well, I think it's the same thing, you know, as I said before, that to get astronauts into space, it's a whole chain of people behind whether it's people at NASA or Roscosmos, but there's also the families who allow them to go up there, really, because they support them. And in Cady Coleman's case, we had a chat and I said, 'Can I involve your family in this film, and actually show from their perspective what it's like?' with her husband, the glassblower, the artist, Josh Simpson, and her son, Jamie. And she said, 'Well, nobody ever asked for that'. So, she was very happy to do that. And it's really interesting, you know, when he speaks so eloquently about when she takes off and you suddenly realize that that flash of white light is actually someone you love. I mean, that's quite profound. But it's the same, you know, with - it's not just Cady having to say goodbye to her child it's, you know, Tim Peake saying goodbye to his children or Scott Kelly saying goodbye to his family. It is a pressure on them, of course.
Matthew 25:29
And they're gone for so long, some six months, sometimes up to a year in Scott's case, certainly. And I think, well, as you said, that bright light, but I think it was either Scott, or one of the other ones said, you're sitting on the equivalent of a bomb that goes off to get you into space. And then also, I mean, it also captures a lot of other things like the difference in cultures, US versus Russia, which is very interesting. And I have some experiences with Russia, so I do appreciate that was very typical, at least from my own experiences. So, and like you said, it's a very wide-ranging - an amazing project. I mean, how much longer is it going to be going because I think, I imagine these things have a life, that some of this equipments now getting to be relatively dated, though, I guess they can change it in and out as need be.
Clare Lewins 26:27
I don't know, technically, exactly, because I think it was meant to have been, you know, dissembled, as it were, about two years ago, but it's still going. Every so often they have to sort of - just gravity brings it down, and they have to sort of push it up. Because, yeah, just to keep it above the right level. But, I mean, it can't go on indefinitely, but it seems to be working at the moment.
Matthew 26:53
The last thing I'll say on that is that what I discovered is you can get onto, I think it's NASA, there's - just do a search for it - but you can, wherever you live in the world, can put your location and you can find out how to see the space station fly overhead. So, I know the times at least where I live in England, when it's going to be visible, and we've got a clear day today, so I might be able to see it tonight. So, I don't know if you've done that, Clare, but I highly recommend our listeners that find out where you live, you know, put your location in, and see when you might actually see the space station flying overhead, and you can actually see it.
Clare Lewins 27:39
No, I think it's fantastic when you do work that out. And then in the film, one of the most moving scenes for me is Josh Simpson, and his son Jamie just watching his wife and a mum fly over, you know, so they used to go out and watch it fly over, they worked out where she'd be.
Matthew 28:01
Very, very poignant discussions and scenes about 9/11, which we've just obviously had the 20th anniversary, and hadn't realized, you know, they flew over Manhattan regularly over that day and caught the - a lot of things: the World Trade Centers collapsing in the plumes of smoke and debris and stuff. So, it's all very, very poignant. Let's, I mean, if you don't mind if we talk a little bit about the film, I mean, so you've already mentioned how you got involved. But how did you, I mean, was this a close collaboration with NASA and the different agencies involved? You get all these amazing astronauts and cosmonauts on camera and some amazing footage that I take has to come from the agencies themselves.
Clare Lewins 28:56
I'd say to start with, you know, we had to try, our main aim was to, well, if I take it back from there, to make a film about the space station for me narratively was quite tricky, because it's over a period of 20 years. It hasn't got that sort of linear, you know, that easy narrative of, say, Apollo 11 or Apollo 13, you just have people wanting to go up to the moon and come back, or whatever. It's sort of 20 years, lots of different nationalities, lots of different people could be in the film. And I had to find a way of getting into that story, really, picking certain people, and I have to say I struggled with it to start with because I couldn't see a way into the film. And then I - but going back to why it's called The Wonderful, I was reading the author Joseph Conrad talking about ancient sailors when they go off in, you know, they leave in ships, they don't know whether they're going to come back safely. And he said they were going in a beat, 'an impulse in the blood, to dream of the future, and they were wonderful, and it has to be said they were ready for the wonderful'. This is the film. This is it. Actually, people that would do that. And so, then I thought, I can't do this linear story, I'm going to have to do it as if they're little satellites that bump up against the space station. So, you think, these stories aren't connected, you know, what on Earth has 9/11 got to do with this. But then you see, you know, for instance, Expedition 1 was an obvious story to start with, because that's the objective of the Space Station. You see George Abbey, stroking the, you know, the arm of Bill Shepherd, in the archive. And so, if you look in the archive, they are all linked. You know, Scott Kelly's helping Samantha or Tim Peake's being pushed out by Volkov who we had earlier. So, they do tie up. Not in interviews; I didn't want that, but in archives. And so, I think it was - going back to your original thing of collaboration - I sort of researched it and tried to find out the sort of people I wanted, and then we just had to go and ask them. And it worked some cases better than others. Finally, we got all the people we wanted, actually. And NASA was, you know, once we were on board with NASA, they let us have their archive, which is brilliant. And they've got some fantastic people working on the archive department. So, we were very lucky with that. And Roscosmos, and JAXA and ESA; we had the support of all of them.
Matthew 30:10
I think it's amazing because again, this - I mean, I haven't had the chance yet but I definitely want to show this film to my sons and daughter who are very interested in science, and space and stuff. I think it's back to this, at least, I have to say for myself and my own family, many I know, it's just one of these things that's happening above our head that we just never really think about. And yet it's quite amazing what they're doing, and what they're achieving, and what is captured with that, I mean, some of that footage almost looks like, can that really be real? You know, some of it, but it's absolutely amazing.
Clare Lewins 32:19
It is all real. I agree with you. You think 'Is that CGI?'.
Matthew 32:23
I did think that a few times. I was like 'No, no, I think that's actually...'
Clare Lewins 32:27
But I didn't want any CGI in it. So, it wasn't just archive and interviews, I also did some reconstruction scenes sort of lead into things like, you know, the Russian boy, young cosmonaut, as it were, looking in the mirror in his red jumper and then he, you know, he dreams of becoming a cosmonaut. And the same, you know, with Peggy's situation as a young child being inspired by the moon landings. We tried to do some, you know, nice reconstruction, really, that would lead into the story.
Matthew 33:05
Well, I think it works. As being of a certain age myself, I feel like you captured some of those childhood periods quite well. Because as we mentioned, a lot of them were inspired - I mean, I'm not quite that - can't remember, well, at least the early Apollo missions, but certainly the 60s and 70s, and what it was like, and what I imagined what it was like I wouldn't know what exactly what it was like for Russians or Soviets at the time. But no, I think it's very poignant, these dreams that people had, I think that Conrad clip quote is an excellent one, I think we should, I'm gonna say we include that in the show notes, because I think that really is...
Clare Lewins 33:51
When I read it, I had like hairs on my arms, you know, because I thought, this is kind of the film, really, and it is the fact that it's people moving to an impulse in the blood, you know, to a dream of the future. It's like, they can't help but go out in those ships. And it's, I feel that's the same with the astronauts, they just take it very seriously, their role in space exploration and what they're doing.
Matthew 34:15
And, if you don't mind, let's - because I hate to say it, we're coming up against our time right now with you - but just want to talk a little bit about your career. And, I mean, how long have you been doing documentary films? Or is that a loaded question to ask?
Clare Lewins 34:32
No, no. I'm going to be like Zsar Zsar Gabor, I'm going to lie about my age. But, well, it's a funny - when people talk about your career, I mean, it's just like, it's silly because I've never ever planned anything in my life. I've never had a plan or anything. I haven't even got a diary. I shouldn't say that to the producer because it drives them mad. But I haven't actually got a diary. I have got a good memory, luckily. But I sort of got into filming, really, my father is a photographer; I grew up in a house, just loved films. You know, not sort of fancy, fancy arty films, but just films. And I then went to university, and as part of my degree, I got a scholarship. Or, I should say, you know, to go to an American university, but I had to pick something that I couldn't do in my university. So, I just chose film. And so, I sort of studied film, but I was a bit, I had the vision for films but I was a bit shy. I did not like being the center of attention, or anything, you know, because as a director, people look to you for decisions. I sort of mooching about, and I worked for a film production company making commercials and things, and worked with a fantastic camera man who has actually, years later, has done the sort of the Ali film, and this one. And then I suddenly thought, 'Oh, I want to make documentaries'. And I knew my bank manager said, but there's no money. Why are you going from quite a good income to no income? And I said, because I just want to make stories about real people, really. And that's when I started. I went - God knows what I was thinking - but I went up to the BBC with an idea for a series, having never made a documentary. And I remember wearing this absolute ridiculous suit. I got panicked and I had a suit I bought from Armani, a white trouser suit. And I looked like the little man in Fantasy Island. But anyway, a year later, they commissioned the series. And I started making documentaries about Che Guevara and Mick Jagger and Muhammad Ali, and things. So, about 20 years is your original question, isn't it?
Matthew 36:46
Well, actually, I feel that was a rude question. An impolite question, at least; I shouldn't ask you how many years but I wasn't sure because - or more when you get into documentary because I think it's, I mean, to be perfectly frank, if you go to IMDb, they don't necessarily show all your back catalogue. But what is interesting, in terms of the more recent stuff, is, so you've had this Ali film, you have this Kareem Abdul-Jabbar film, which were very sports American Muslim themed, I guess, even, a bit, given both those individual's backgrounds. So, was this a - not to focus on that, but very individual focused - but was this a bit of a departure for you to do something like the space station?
Clare Lewins 37:39
Well, I agree, because the film I made before the space station was about Primal Scream, the band. So, we went back to Memphis where they did some original recordings. And that was something for the BBC. So, Space Station was the first time anybody asked me to make a film about a thing as it were, as opposed to people. But I, I somehow made it about the people. I reverted back to what, you know, it's really about humanity, the space station in a way because there's so many fantastic films about the space station, science and engineering. You know, there's one narrated by Tom Cruise, which is great and everything. But this is really - the space age in ways irrelevant. It's just using that as a foil to show the potential of Man I think.
Matthew 38:26
Exactly. I think you have some quotes in there as well. But, you know, titles that basically, I mean, talks about what we can all achieve if we put our mind to it, basically; not that we're all destined to be astronauts or cosmonauts, far from it. I, like you, I think would go crazy. I nearly fell off my chair when I saw those scenes of the spacewalks. I mean, that would just - I would pass out, I think, but - no, I thought that was very interesting and very poignant about, like you said the humanity of this, which raises a point, I mean, as you said, you took a gamble, you pitched a story to the BBC, and sort of the rest is history. What is the key to getting not so much getting films, you know, we get a lot of people listen to this who are trying to get films commissioned, so it's not so much the key to getting films commissioned, but how, what is it that makes a film, you know, that makes the film, basically, makes it interesting - not just interesting, but, and I hate to use the word 'successful', that's a bit convoluted, but, I mean, what makes a good documentary in your mind?
Clare Lewins 39:45
Well, I mean, I don't even know if I make good documentaries. All I can say about what I do in my films. Well, I didn't even know I did. But people feel quite emotional after them. I mean, I don't know whether that's because of the music or because of the way it's edited, or because of the story. So, I think what makes a good documentary is that you actually believe the people in it. And so, when I interviewed the astronauts, because they think, Oh my God, this woman knows so little about space or whatever, you know, there's no, they were quite relaxed. And they, you have a rapport with them, and they trust you. And I have a duty of care in my own head to portray them in a, you know, a truthful light. I don't want to, I'm not one of those sort of directors that would stitch someone up in that sense, you know, just to get a more interesting angle or something. I think you've got to feel it's truthful. That's the key. You know, I watch documentaries that I - you know, the best ones for me is when you really sort of, somebody talking in the interviews really touches a nerve with you, whatever the subject.
Matthew 40:58
Yeah. And with that in mind, what's next for you?
Clare Lewins 41:03
Ah, well see...
Matthew 41:06
And most people - I'll cut in there, because most people, most filmmakers just immediately say, 'Well, I'm not allowed to say' or 'I'm not at liberty'.
Clare Lewins 41:13
No, I'm not at liberty to say, but actually, what I'd like more than anything, is to have like a week off or something. No, I have got, I always have ideas in my head. Making myself sound like Joan of Arc, but no, I always have film ideas in my head. And there is something I am going to be working on. But I have to say...!
Matthew 41:38
Well, we will be on the lookout for it, regardless. And I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming on to the podcast, it was a joy meeting you and to talk about this great film that you've made that I highly recommend. The Wonderful: Stories from the Space Station, which was released earlier this month, on most digital platforms here in September 2021. So, Claire, thank you again. And if I haven't scared you off with all our technical glitches and things, we'd love to have you again on the podcast when your next project's out.
Clare Lewins 42:16
Well, thank you very much for your support. And, you know, and your listeners, and I will promise I will play to my strengths and make a film I know nothing about. Like, I knew nothing about boxing. I knew nothing. I mean, now I could go on a quiz show about space.
Matthew 42:34
Well, maybe we'll be on the lookout for that as well. And really, really did enjoy the film and...
Clare Lewins 42:43
It's best in the cinema, though. It really is.
Matthew 42:45
Well I'm going to try to get it up on a - I watched it on a laptop, unfortunately.
Clare Lewins 42:50
It's designed for the cinema. So, it has to be in a big theater, really.
Matthew 42:56
We don't have a home entertainment system like some people do, certainly, like a lot of my compatriots. But I am going to get it on a bigger screen so my children can watch it because it definitely needs to be in HD and all that but, no, I thought - I probably should have mentioned even I think one thing that struck me is that I kept thinking - I felt like I was watching a feature narrative in many ways. I mean, I know there's, you know, it was just the, sort of - like you said it's probably that quality of the big screen.
Clare Lewins 43:26
I was sort of, like to punch above my weight, as it were. And I've got this fantastic cinematographer, Stuart luck. So, we approach each scene as if we're making a movie, really, rather than a documentary.
Matthew 43:39
Well, I think it comes across loud and clear. So, so thanks again.
Clare Lewins 43:45
Thanks. Take care. Bye now.
Matthew 43:47
I also want to give a big shout out to Sam and Joe at Innersound Audio in Escrick, England, just outside of York. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, our podcast manager at Alamo Pictures who ensures we continue getting such great guests like Claire onto the show. Finally, a big thanks to our listeners. As always we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas, whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. And please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 44:22
You've been listening to Factual America. This podcast is produced by Alamo Pictures specializing in documentaries, television, and shorts about the USA for international audiences. Head on down to the show notes for more information about today's episode, our guests, and the team behind the podcast. Subscribe to our mailing list or follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter @alamopictures, be the first to hear about new productions, festivals showing our films, and to connect with our team. Our homepage is alamopictures.co.uk.