Facing Nolan Ryan, the Baseball Legend
Facing Nolan captures the life of Baseball Hall of Famer Nolan Ryan, arguably one of the greatest pitchers of all time. His 51 records and 27 seasons across four decades are the stuff of lore. It wasn't always so. Even as the Ryan Express was chalking up strikeouts and no-hitters like no one before him, or since, Nolan Ryan was surprisingly undervalued. Oddly enough, he may still be.
What better way to understand Ryan's fierce competitive spirit and otherworldly talent than actually asking the Hall of Famers who had to face his 100-mph fastball, or 12-6 curveball on a regular basis.
In acclaimed filmmaker Bradley Jackson's documentary about this living Texas legend, Nolan Ryan is revealed by those who know him best – his family, teammates, and even former US presidents.
“I can’t think of an athlete that is more associated with a state than Nolan Ryan is for Texas.” - Nolan Ryan
Time Stamps:
00:00 - The trailer for Facing Nolan.
04:49 - A synopsis of what the documentary is about.
06:06 - Why so many teams undervalued Nolan Ryan.
09:00 - Why some people don’t like his pitching.
11:00 - How the baseball legends responded to being asked to be on the film.
13:20 - What it was like being a batter against Nolan Ryan.
15:46 - How Bradley Jackson got involved with the making of the film.
18:27 - What Nolan thinks about pitching today.
21:54 - The effect his wife had on his career.
23:29 - What it’s like making a film with a baseball legend.
27:43 - How Nolan responds to the incident with Robin Ventura.
32:30 - What he means as a sports figure for the state of Texas.
34:15 - How Bradley Jackson got an interview with George Bush.
37:46 - The next project he is working on.
Resources:
Facing Nolan (2022)
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Bradley Jackson:
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Transcript for Factual America Episode 105: Facing Nolan
Bradley Jackson 00:00
Hi, I'm Bradley Jackson. I am the director of Facing Nolan.
Speaker 1 00:06
The spotlight of the baseball world is on this man tonight: Nolan Ryan.
Speaker 2 00:12
Nolan's fastball? There was no other sound like it.
Speaker 3 00:16
What a great ball.
Speaker 4 00:18
Pop!
Speaker 5 00:18
It sounded like bacon in a frying pan.
Speaker 6 00:21
Records are meant to be broken, but not this one.
Speaker 7 00:25
Every part of him is this Paul Bunyanesque character.
Speaker 8 00:29
He's rubbing the ball. He's staring at you.
Speaker 9 00:32
Look out... inside.
Speaker 10 00:33
I'm the sheriff around here!
Speaker 11 00:39
Without a doubt, he's the most intimidating pitcher in the history of the game.
Speaker 12 00:43
You hit that guy on purpose? And he goes, George, sometimes you just have to take control of the situation.
Speaker 13 00:51
And there's the record breaker!
Speaker 14 00:52
Everything about Nolan Ryan is rather mythical.
Speaker 15 00:56
This is Big Tex. His legend can't grow anymore.
Speaker 16 01:00
And he was wild.
Speaker 17 01:04
And I started thinking maybe this isn't what I'm meant to do.
Speaker 18 01:09
He had no consistency.
Speaker 19 01:14
He couldn't control the ball.
Speaker 20 01:16
All hell broke loose.
Speaker 21 01:17
I mean, he talked about pain. He learned to pitch with it.
Speaker 22 01:23
And Ryan does not have McCloud.
Speaker 23 01:25
He looked down, and said, This might be it.
Speaker 24 01:29
He was ready to quit baseball.
Speaker 25 01:34
He pitched 27 years.
Speaker 26 01:36
This is as close as I want to be to this guy.
Speaker 27 01:42
How many power pitchers get better as they get older?
Speaker 28 01:45
To have the support of my family. I can't tell you how much that means to me.
Speaker 29 01:50
The seven no hitters is never going to be broken.
Speaker 30 01:52
The man has more strike-outs than anybody will ever have in the history of the game. Nobody's ever going to break it.
Speaker 31 02:00
I guess it was kind of like, I was born to be a pitcher.
Speaker 32 02:06
Great call.
Matthew 02:10
This is Factual America. We're brought to you by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company, making documentaries about America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week, it is my pleasure to welcome acclaimed filmmaker Bradley Jackson, director of Facing Nolan. The film captures the life of baseball Hall of Famer, Nolan Ryan, arguably one of the greatest pitchers of all time. His 51 records and 27 seasons across four decades are the stuff of lore. It wasn't always so; even as the Ryan Express was chalking up strike-outs and no hitters like no one before him, or since, Nolan Ryan was surprisingly undervalued. Oddly enough, he may still be. What better way to understand Ryan's fierce competitive spirit and otherworldly talent, than actually asking the Hall of Famers who had to face his 100 mile an hour fastball, or twelve-six curveball, on a regular basis. Stay tuned, as we talk about Nolan Ryan as revealed by those who know him best: his family, teammates, and even former US presidents. We also asked Bradley why it has taken so long for a documentary to be made about this living Texas legend. Bradley, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Bradley Jackson 03:32
Doing great. Thanks for having me on.
Matthew 03:34
Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you on. I can't believe I'm gonna get paid to talk about Nolan Ryan, but more about that in a few minutes. So, yes, remind our listeners, and viewers, we're talking about - the film's Facing Nolan. Did it premiere at South by...?
Bradley Jackson 03:51
Yes, South by Southwest back in March.
Matthew 03:54
Okay, and it's on a limited theatrical release now in the US, and it's going to be - do I have it correct - streaming from July 19?
Bradley Jackson 04:03
It'll be available on digital and on-demand on July 19, and streaming probably later in the year in October, November.
Matthew 04:13
Okay, so do we have a place where people can find it on-demand?
Bradley Jackson 04:18
Yeah, iTunes, Google Play, Voodoo.
Matthew 04:23
Okay.
Bradley Jackson 04:23
Pretty much any on-demand service you'll be able to find it.
Matthew 04:27
Cool. All right. Well, thanks again for coming on. I really enjoyed the documentary. It brought back a lot of memories for myself. But for our audience who haven't seen it, or maybe can't tell from the title, but what is Facing Nolan all about? Maybe you can give us a bit of a synopsis.
Bradley Jackson 04:49
Yeah, so Facing Nolan, is - what we're saying - is the definitive documentary about who, I think, is the greatest pitcher in the history of Major League Baseball: Nolan Ryan, aka the Express. He pitched for 27 years. He has 51 Major League records. He's a true baseball icon, a true Texas legend. And he was my favorite athlete as a kid. So, I'm really honored and thrilled that I got to make the movie about him.
Matthew 05:17
I mean, the thing that kept striking me when I was watching this is that how much fun this must have been to make. Especially if you're any semblance of a baseball fan. I mean, one thing that - you've already kind of put his career in perspective, the records, by far most strike-outs, no hitters, some dubious ones...
Bradley Jackson 05:41
Yeah!
Matthew 05:41
... in terms of walks and grand slams and stuff. But the one thing what I found interesting, and it did remind me of - it brought me straight back to the sort of 80s and even the 70s; I am old enough to remember his career in the 70s - but that he was often undervalued. I mean, it's kind of hard to say that about someone who's the game's first million dollar player. But why was he undervalued, you think?
Bradley Jackson 06:08
I think because... that's a great question. In hindsight, it makes no sense why he was undervalued. But if you go to the specific moments - so, when we say he's undervalued, every team that he was on, but the Rangers, ended up, either letting him leave or trading him away, and not valuing him to the way he felt like he should be valued. So, the Mets essentially traded him away for - it's known as one of the worst trades in the history of baseball. But at the time, nobody knew that he was going to become what he became with the Angels. When he left the Angels - that one was a bit egregious because he was at the peak of his powers. But I think the Angels thought that they could do better than him, which was weird. The Astros, they got rid of him, because I think they thought he was getting old, which he was 41 years old when he left the Astros and I don't think they thought that he was going to go on to do - nobody could have predicted what he was going to go do with the Rangers. So, I understand as a filmmaker, why they let him go, but it's still in hindsight doesn't make any sense why, as a franchise, why - I mean, if the point of being an owner of a team is to sell tickets, the guy could still sell tickets with the best of them.
Matthew 07:31
Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, exactly. But I was just wondering, even, too; I mean, he just had, I don't know if it's really bad luck, but he always was playing with these, by the standards of the day, they were recent teams. They were still kind of expansion teams. So, I mean, I know, the Mets - Yeah, he never played for amazing teams that could back him up. So, you have some good discussions in there, too, about...
Bradley Jackson 07:57
Yeah, there was a year with the Astros where...
Matthew 08:01
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 08:01
... in 1987, he led the league in ERA and in strike-outs, which, if you know anything about baseball, if you lead the league in ERA and strike-outs, it means you're the best pitcher in the league. But yet, he only won eight out of 24 games that year. He was 8 and 16. Go figure. His team didn't give him run support.
Matthew 08:23
Or if you even look - I mean, and it's a different era, and we can go into that if we desire - but, I mean, he would have 16 wins in a season, still have a losing record! It's like, I mean because of all these complete games. Or he'd go so far into the game, so - and then, okay, so you say you think he's the best pitcher ever, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but, you know, he's not even some people's Top Ten. You know, you get people say longevity was a factor, as if that's a bad word or something. But, you know...
Bradley Jackson 08:59
There's some people that would even say that, like, Oh, he was too much of a strike-out pitcher. Like, you know, he doesn't pitch to contact, which to me is, like, that's a style thing. I don't know. I mean, like, the most efficient, I guess, obviously, the most efficient way to get somebody out is to throw one pitch and then they ground out or pop out. But at the end of the day, anytime the ball is put in play, there's the chance that somebody's gonna get on base. So, the most efficient way to get - if the pitcher's job is to get them out in the most efficient way - the best way to get an out without runs getting scored as a strike-out, arguably, he's the best pitcher of all time because he threw the most strike-outs of all time.
Matthew 09:40
Yeah. I don't know. It's a strange one, too, because I just remember, even at the time, because, you know, you pick up - because the point you make is that he never won the Cy Young, which is the award that's voted by the press for the best pitcher in the league - each league gets their own winner - so, it's in some ways a bit of a popularity. contest. So, at the time, you know, even the media just never really celebrated him. It wasn't till way late in his career that he was this kind of, Isn't this amazing what he's achieved. But even while he was chalking up all these strike-outs, and no hitters, and wins, he wasn't - I mean, that's why I was even surprised that he was the first million dollar player...
Bradley Jackson 10:23
Yeah.
Matthew 10:24
... you know, because it was kind of - it's strange. It really is strange. But you go around, hence why it's called Facing Nolan - one reason - you go around and interview all the legends of the game that went up, either played with him or had to face his 100 mile an hour, plus 100 mile an hour, fastball, or Twelve-Six curveball. I mean, we've already said this must have been a lot of fun. How did they react when you approached them? Were they up for it?
Bradley Jackson 10:58
Yeah, everybody was excited. It was one of those dreams come true to get to sit down with Pete Rose, George Brett, Randy Johnson, Craig Biggio, Dave Winfield, Roger Clemens, you know, Rod Carew - all Hall of Famers, or should be Hall of Famers, and then, you know, toss in a former sitting President, George W. Bush, into the mix. Getting everybody as excited - especially if you're either in baseball or from Texas, you want to talk about Nolan because there's just something so... I don't know if legendary or epic, maybe epic is the right word about him, about his career. Because not only was he so dominant on the mound, but he was also such a kind of a mythical figure. A lot of people were like, Wait, what does he do in the offseason? Oh, he owns and runs a cattle ranch? Wait, wouldn't he just be relaxing, you know, in Hawaii on the beach collecting his millions? No, he, like, ran a fully operational cattle ranch; was on horses. The day that the season ended, he's on a horse. He's riding around the Texas prairie. So, he's kind of a newfangled cowboy, in a sense. I think that added to the myth and the legend as well.
Matthew 12:16
Yeah. And, I mean, you even debunk one of those myths. But it's kind of interesting how you - the one about throwing newspapers.
Bradley Jackson 12:24
You know, I think there's a lot - especially if you're from Texas, like I am, that you hear a lot of legends and myths about him. And so, like, the old myth that I heard as a kid was he developed his 100 mile an hour fastball by throwing newspapers when he was a kid; you just throw newspapers, on a paper route. You know, I asked him about that thinking he would say, Yeah, that's how I got it - No, I threw with my left hand, and I'm a right handed pitcher, you have to drive so you throw out the window with your left hand. And I was, like, Well, then why did people, you know, and so it's just, like, it's subverting the legend, subverting the myth, because he is a real person. He's not John Bunyan, you know, he's not Davy Crockett.
Matthew 13:09
And, so, when you're interviewing these guys who had to bat against him, what do they say? What do they think about him in terms of being the greatest of all time?
Bradley Jackson 13:19
I mean, we interviewed in my mind, you know, three of the greatest hitters of all time, Rod Carew, George Brett, Pete Rose. And Rod Carew said, he's like, Every time I faced him, I thought I was gonna go one over four. So, that's amazing. Rocker talks about how he had to change his stance when he would bat from Nolan because he was too fast. Pete Rose, who was the all-time hit king, talked about how he was, you know, the most intimidating person he ever faced, and then George Brett still relived a moment that I think haunts him to this day where Nolan got him out in a particular in-game scenario, and he explained - George Brett essentially said I thought I was going to win the game; bases loaded one out, bottom of the ninth, I thought I could win the game, just by making contact and Nolan made me ground into a double play in a way that I couldn't believe he did it. And I'll never live it down. And so, you have these guys that, like, still remember facing him like it was yesterday, which was pretty magical to capture.
Matthew 14:22
I mean, it is amazing because even a few others can remember exactly the pitch that he threw them when they either were the last out or, you know, with a milestone strike-out or whatever; it is like it is yesterday. I think that takes us to a very, let's give our audience a very early break. We'll be right back with Bradley Jackson, director of Facing Nolan premiered at South by Southwest. It's on limited theatrical release in the US, and it's on demand from July 19.
Factual America midroll 14:55
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Matthew 15:15
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with acclaimed filmmaker Bradley Jackson, director of Facing Nolan. It premiered at South by Southwest earlier this year. It's on a theatrical release right now in the States, and it will be available on-demand wherever you get your videos on-demand from July 19. Bradley, how did this doc get made? I mean, it's not every day that someone gets to, or how did you get involved with this? Was this your idea?
Bradley Jackson 15:46
Yeah, it was my idea. It was one of those, like a lot of great projects, I think it was birthed out of a little bit of professional jealousy. I just rewatched The Last Dance, the Michael Jordan documentary, for, like, the third or fourth time, I think. And I was just kind of seething that I didn't get to be a part of it because I love Michael Jordan. I love that era of basketball. And I was just thinking, Okay, who's somebody else who's another Michael Jordan that is in my life that maybe hasn't had a movie made about them. As I was just thinking that, I was just, like, Oh my god, it's Nolan. Like, his records, his dominance, maybe not the number of championships, but just the sheer level of fame in his sport as well. So, I created a pitch that was very similar to what you see in the film called Facing Nolan, and I found a producer, and we just kind of, you know, made some inroads with the Ryan family and got a pitch meeting with them. And, you know, sold the movie; sold our vision to them. And they bought in and said, Yeah, we'll partner with you and help you make this movie.
Matthew 16:56
Wow. I mean, why hasn't there been a doc about Nolan before now? It seems like one of the obvious ones.
Bradley Jackson 17:03
Yeah, I think because - it's two words why the movie hasn't been made until now, and those two words are Nolan Ryan. I don't think he wanted a movie made about him.
Matthew 17:14
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 17:16
I don't think he's, like - not like he's press shy or whatever. I just think he thinks it's a little, maybe a little braggadocious, or little ego stroking. And it really took his wife to tell him that you're not doing this for you. You're doing this for your family. Doing this for your grandkids. And I do think there's some semblance of the fact that some of the great pitchers of his era, Tom Seaver, Bob Gibson, had recently passed away.
Matthew 17:45
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 17:46
And I think it was kind of one of those, like, let's get this story down. Let's make this a legacy moment, which, once we interviewed him and got him comfortable, I think he was excited about it.
Matthew 17:58
Yeah, cos it looks like he's having fun. I mean, there's a twinkle in his eye.
Bradley Jackson 18:01
Yeah, yeah. And he has a twinkle in his eye, especially when you get him talking about, you know, some of those old memories and are talking about, you know, this new era of baseball. He likes to talk about baseball, he likes to talk about family, and he likes to talk about cattle. So, and we talked about all three of those things in this movie. He's in his comfort zone!
Matthew 18:22
And what does he think of this current era of baseball since you mentioned it?
Bradley Jackson 18:26
I mean, you get him talking, he thinks that starting pitchers don't go long enough. He thinks that they rely too much on relievers, and pitch counts, and, you know, I think he thinks that a starting pitcher should go at least eight innings every single time because that's what he did. And, I mean, he took it as an insult if he got pulled after seven innings or eight innings. He wanted to finish every game he started, which I think was what made him be the legend that he is.
Matthew 18:57
I mean, he is of a different era. I mean, he's got - I mean, I'm not saying I would do any different, you know, if most starters these days, if they felt a tinge in their elbow, they would say, I don't think I can pitch today. What does he do? He goes out and pitches and he's even got bone spurs or something in his elbow and he goes in, throws a no hitter. I mean...
Bradley Jackson 19:19
Yeah, no, I mean, his - I think his fourth and his seventh no hitter. The way he describes it, and other people who are there, describe it, from the moment he woke up the morning for those two no hitters until the moment he threw his first pitch, he was in agony.
Matthew 19:34
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 19:35
He was in a lot of pain, his warm-ups were bad. His elbow, was like, for his fourth no hitter they said he couldn't raise his elbow above his shoulder height - so, like, to there - and he just had that extra level that the superstars have. You know, you hear about Michael Jordan and the flu game, or, you know, these moments where athletes are in pain because every athlete, as Nolan says in the movie, some people call it pain, I just call it discomfort. You have to learn how to - every great athlete, especially at their height, they're in a level of discomfort. You know, it's like, are you hurt or are you injured? And I think he's just, like, Well, I'm hurt. I'm fine. Everybody's hurt. It's just the way he was built.
Matthew 20:26
Yeah, yeah. I mean, what do you think the secret is to his success?
Bradley Jackson 20:35
I think it's mental. You know, because a lot of these athletes, there's no reason, you know, if you compare Nolan Ryan to another top tier pitcher, who maybe quit when he was 36, 37, I think a lot of it is mental, because I don't think there's that much physical difference.
Matthew 20:53
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 20:53
I think the fact that he was the youngest of six kids who was raised by depression era parents; I think that does have something to do with it. Because, you know, as he likes to say, Nobody was really paying that much attention to me as a kid, so, I just, like, had to, like, do crazy things to stand out.
Matthew 21:11
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 21:12
And I think, like, you know, it was never given to him. Nobody ever said, Oh, you're gonna be great one day. He just was always - he just always worked as hard as he possibly could. And then, when people started noticing him, he's like, Well, this is just what I've been doing all along. So, you know, I mean, who knows what it is?
Matthew 21:35
I mean, you could say that even - I mean, as we were talking earlier, even early in his career, he believed in himself.
Bradley Jackson 21:43
Yeah.
Matthew 21:43
Others didn't, necessarily. I mean, certainly his wife did. And as you've already alluded to, I mean, she's often been a driver of his career, hasn't she.
Bradley Jackson 21:54
Yeah, she is the reason why this movie is made. Not just in that she told him to, but I don't think Nolan's career would be as special as it was without her. For one, he might have quit after he left the Mets. Like, he talks openly about - his career wasn't going well, he wasn't a consistent starter, he wasn't a consistent winner. And he just had control problems. And I think there was a strike happening in the MLB at the time. And they just had their first child. And I think he was like, Well, I got a pension. I can go be a cattle farmer. I've made okay money. I'm gonna be a cattle farmer, and I'm good. I played seven years, I won a World Series, I'm 26 years old, it's time to leave. And she said, No, you're too good. Let's give it a couple more years. And that was the year that he went into the stratosphere. So, you know, without her you and I are not talking.
Matthew 22:57
Yeah. No, it's - I mean, she's amazing. You've got great archive, too. I love the stuff from, like, the 70s and stuff.
Bradley Jackson 23:06
Yeah.
Matthew 23:07
You know, and just following their life together. But you're also talking about, you know, what is it like working with one of your idols and a legend in trying to make a film? What's Nolan like, trying to get a film made? I mean, I love the bit at the end, where you show him, he did a bit on a soap opera one time, but...
Bradley Jackson 23:29
Yeah. No, he's definitely not a - he's not somebody that seeks to be in front of the camera. So, there were definitely moments where we kind of had to be, like, Come on, this will be good. It'll be annoying for 10 minutes, then you'll forget the cameras there. And then it'll go well, like; you know, he doesn't want to have a microphone put on him. That kind of a thing. But if you explain the process to him, he gets it. And, you know, I think he was more nervous, you know, us interviewing him than he was, you know, starting a game at Yankee Stadium. So, he's not somebody that loves to be in front of a camera. But, he's just so interesting. He's just led the most interesting life. So, anytime he opens his mouth, you sit forward and listen.
Matthew 24:27
I mean, one thing is you didn't even touch on his post-playing days. But he had a proper...
Bradley Jackson 24:33
We felt like there was too much. That could have been its own movie.
Matthew 24:38
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 24:39
What he did with the Rangers - and there was an early cut of the movie where we just kind of briefly discussed it. And we screened it for some people and they were just, like, it opens up too many more questions and makes me, like - my hope is that people - if you don't know that much about Nolan Ryan, and you watch this movie, and you're fascinated, which we hope you are, you'll go and open up YouTube, you'll go and do some digging, you'll read a couple of the books that have been written about him. And I think it's just because he's done so many more - like, you mentioned the soap opera. Like, I was multiple days into filming the documentary about him, and I didn't know he was in a soap opera. And, you know, I considered myself an expert on him, and I didn't know he was in a soap opera. So, there's all these little interesting things about him. So, yeah.
Matthew 25:29
And quite, I mean, as you've already mentioned, Pete Rose plays a big part in this film, and it's great to see him. Now, for those who don't know, Pete Rose has his own interesting history. And he's, you know, currently, I think he's the only player actually, literally banned - officially - from baseball and the Hall of Fame. I mean, but they do these events together where they reminisce and talk about their playing days. What does Nolan think about the whole Pete Rose situation? Is that something that came up?
Bradley Jackson 26:03
Yeah, no, he thinks Pete should be in the Hall of Fame.
Matthew 26:06
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 26:07
I mean, it's like you ask him, he would give you that answer; like, there's no secret that Nolan - now, he jokingly says that Pete would run over his own mother to score a run.
Matthew 26:19
Well, he probably would!
Bradley Jackson 26:20
He would. Yeah. I mean, he said that, like, Pete, I think, you know, the way I like to think of it, Nolan was the most inwardly competitive person. And Pete was the most outwardly competitive person. You know, Pete's gonna run over somebody just to score a run. Nolan's going to keep it in, but he's going to do - they're the same, but just a little different. That's why I think they get along.
Matthew 26:44
Yeah. Well, there's some great scenes you got; Nolan talking about pitching inside, you know...
Bradley Jackson 26:47
Yeah. Yeah, I think he just, you know - that's another thing he'll get on about the pitchers today is, like, they don't throw inside because they're afraid of hitting somebody. Whereas in Nolan's day, I think it was, you know, you hit people. Maybe sometimes it was on purpose. Most of the time it probably wasn't, but sometimes it probably was. And Nolan, kind of like, that was - just came with the territory.
Matthew 27:21
And, of course, I mean, we couldn't do a podcast about Facing Nolan or Nolan Ryan himself without talking about the Robin Ventura incident. I mean, how do you...
Bradley Jackson 27:35
Legendary moment.
Matthew 27:36
Yeah. Which made many Texans proud, I can tell you, but anyway, how did you handle it?
Bradley Jackson 27:43
Yeah. Well, I mean, he laughs about it, because he says, he goes, I think it's the first question everybody wants to ask, but it's always the third or fourth or fifth question they do ask.
Matthew 27:55
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 27:55
But, you know, obviously, you have to talk about it, because it somehow has taken on a life of its own. It was kind of the first, like, viral sports moment, maybe. But I'm really proud of the way we do it in the movie, because I think there's a couple of great payoffs in it. And I also think we cover it in a way that hasn't been done before. I think we provide the right amount of context of not just why it happened, but also why Nolan reacted the way that he did. And so, in my mind, I think it is kind of the - it's probably the most crowd pleasing moment in the whole film. We screened it at Ranger Stadium this year after a game. The Rangers played the Braves. And we screened the movie afterwards to about 8500 to 10,000 fans. And when that moment happened, everybody just applauded. So, it was definitely one of those, like, larger than life moments, which makes sense because Nolan is a larger than life figure.
Matthew 29:01
What I can say, because I know we want audiences to see this for themselves, what I can say is, there's some background to this story that I was not aware of, and I thought it was very, very interesting. And a coincidence, it's just incredible, actually, but we'll leave it at that. I really liked you talking with Roger Clemens, who I think is, in many ways, a very similar pitcher to Nolan - Texan power pitcher - he also has some of the, for me personally, a scene that really resonated was him talking about sneaking into the Astrodome and watching Nolan Ryan warm up, and I can say I've actually seen Ryan pitch in person. I went to Astrodome. I saw him pitch in the late 80s against Danny Cox of the Cardinals, and we got there early and we went down towards the field because in those days the bullpen was essentially right along the first base of that line, and the sounds that they - the guys all talked about the sounds that his pitches made. I had completely forgotten it. But it's exactly right. I mean, it was just absolutely amazing. And it was just us. All these kids just all along there on the rail. That was more exciting than the game in many ways.
Bradley Jackson 30:26
Yeah. Something magical about baseball, isn't there?
Matthew 30:29
Yeah. And what about Clemens? I mean, does Ryan have a view on that? Because Clemens seems, not officially, but he's kind of been - I mean, if anyone's got stats for the Hall of Fame.
Bradley Jackson 30:41
Yeah. I've never talked to him about Clemens. I would think he might say the same thing. I don't know. I mean, I think he thinks, you know, Roger is one of the great pitchers of all time. I think if you're gonna say the successors to Nolan Ryan, it's Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens, I think are the two logical successors to him. But yeah, I mean, you know, hearing about Roger Clemens, as a kid sneaking into the Astrodome, just to me was just such a special little moment. Because also, like, you know, it's funny, there's, like, some weird parallels in their career. They're both power pitchers, they're both from Texas, they both played for an incredibly long time. Their records are somewhat similar, but the two things - the weird parallel that I love is that, like, Nolan Ryan famously won zero Cy Young awards, but he has seven no hitters.
Matthew 31:45
Right.
Bradley Jackson 31:45
And Roger Clemens famously won seven Cy Young awards, but somehow has zero no hitters.
Matthew 31:52
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 31:53
So, it's kind of like this weird, like, juxtaposition. Like, it feels like maybe Nolan should have five no hitters and two Cy Youngs, and Clemens should have two no hitters and five Cy Youngs. I don't know. But it is just what.
Matthew 32:05
However, the universe balances itself.
Bradley Jackson 32:08
Yeah.
Matthew 32:09
But, I mean, one thing we haven't - and you mentioned at the beginning, and as someone who's - I was born and raised in Texas - I mean, maybe you can - what does Nolan Ryan mean to the state of Texas? Because a lot of people who are listening or watching this do not - I mean, they may know Nolan's famous, but, I mean, he is absolutely...
Bradley Jackson 32:30
Yeah.
Matthew 32:30
He could have ran for governor if he wanted to.
Bradley Jackson 32:32
Yeah, he could have. He is, in my mind, he is the most famous athlete from Texas, who played in Texas. I mean, I guess you could maybe say Lance Armstrong has more international fame, but it's not necessarily for good reasons.
Matthew 32:48
Right.
Bradley Jackson 32:50
And, you know, I mean, I guess maybe you argue Dirk Nowitzki, but Dirk's not from Texas. I can't think of a more - an athlete who is associated with a state more specifically than Nolan is with Texas. Maybe Michael Jordan with Chicago and Illinois. But Michael Jordan's from North Carolina.
Matthew 33:13
Exactly.
Bradley Jackson 33:14
So, it's just kind of like this - in Texas, I mean, like, everybody talks about Texas and its love for football. But it's the same for baseball. I think everybody thinks about Friday Night Lights. But the Lights also apply to baseball. We love our baseball in the state of Texas, so. And he just represents what Texans want to represent, you know, like, you know, kind of - maybe that's why the Robin Ventura thing resonated so much was because, you know, he's this kind of old, old guy who is defending his turf a little bit, and I think that's what Texans maybe look to.
Matthew 33:54
Yeah, I mean, he looked like he was riding a rodeo when he just does that headlock on him!
Bradley Jackson 33:58
Yeah. Yeah, he was roping him like he was roping a baby calf.
Matthew 34:02
Exactly.
Bradley Jackson 34:04
Yeah.
Matthew 34:04
And then, I mean, this is all great. But how do you - I mean, did you just literally just call up the ex-president of the United States and say, Would you talk to us about Nolan Ryan?!
Bradley Jackson 34:16
I didn't call him, no. Nolan Ryan called him.
Matthew 34:19
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 34:21
No, I mean, like, I think it's one of those things where if Nolan or somebody in his family pick up the phone and say, Hey, can you put us on the schedule - on your books to, like, talk about Nolan?
Matthew 34:31
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 34:32
99% of the time the person is going to say, Yeah, let's do it. The only person who really turned us down was Sandy Koufax. And that's only because Sandy Koufax doesn't do interviews.
Matthew 34:44
Right.
Bradley Jackson 34:44
He famously does not do interviews.
Matthew 34:48
Actually, that's an interesting - one thing I hadn't realized, but don't you have Jeff Torborg, who's in the film. He caught one of Koufax's no hitters and he caught one of Ryan's. Did he say anything? I don't think he's in the film, but did he say anything about comparing the two at all?
Bradley Jackson 35:07
Yeah, he did. You know, he talked about - that's a great little baseball connection - yeah, you know, Torborg is a legend in that he definitely caught Ryan and Koufax. And I think he saw - what Torborg did that was so amazing was I think he saw that Ryan had a little bit of Koufax in him. And he and their pitching coach at the time, figured out what was wrong with Nolan, because Nolan was, like, because everybody thinks, Oh, Koufax was this legend, which he was, but Koufax was similar to Nolan, the first five, four to five years of his career, he was a little wild, he was a little - wasn't the dominant person. And then when he put it all together, then he became a legend. And so, that's exactly what happened with Nolan. It took him five, six years, then he became the legend. So, that was cool to get Torborg on.
Matthew 36:03
But back to - so, you got to - so, you go - do you rock up to George Bush's house with a crew? And just how does...
Bradley Jackson 36:13
Yeah, we had to get a pretty hefty background check done by the Secret Service.
Matthew 36:17
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 36:19
But thankfully, we passed. And we did it at his presidential library in Dallas.
Matthew 36:25
Okay.
Bradley Jackson 36:26
And we were told he was the only person that I shared the questions with beforehand, because his team demanded it. Like, we wanted an hour, they gave us 30 minutes, but we used every single minute of that 30 minutes.
Matthew 36:42
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 36:43
And he was just exactly what you want him to be, you know, especially because we're not talking about politics.
Matthew 36:47
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 36:48
Talking baseball. And, you know, he got to relive some of the great moments of being, you know, former owner of the Rangers, and being good friends with Nolan. And he, you know, he was there for the 5000th strike-out. He was there for the Robin Ventura moment. So, he was there as an owner of the team, but also as a friend. It was pretty cool.
Matthew 37:08
Because they're about the same age, aren't they? They're basically contemporaries.
Bradley Jackson 37:12
I think Dubya might be, like, one year younger, something like that. But yeah, they're very similar in age.
Matthew 37:18
Yeah. Well, I mean, you don't have to be a baseball fan to enjoy this, but it certainly, for me, it was a walk, waltz down memory lane; so, thank you so much for everything you've done for bringing this to the big screen. What's next for you? Are you going to - I know you've got quite a varied career in filmmaking. Are you going to stick with docs? What do you have in the works?
Bradley Jackson 37:46
Yeah, I just finished writing a sports - basketball screenplay for Imagine Entertainment, which is Ron Howard and Brian Grazer's company. So, hopefully, that'll get made. We'll see. But it's a boot movie centered around basketball. And then in the documentary space, I'm producing a documentary about the Milli Vanilli story from the 90s. So, that one, you know, maybe I'll come on your show this time next year, when that movie is out. We can talk about that, because that's a wild story in and of itself.
Matthew 38:20
I think it is. Because there hasn't been another doc about them, has there? Because there's something that came out, because I saw some stuff that I didn't know about them, and it made me - I found them very intriguing when I wasn't, I hadn't previously been.
Bradley Jackson 38:32
Yeah, it's more than just what you kind of see, and, you know, the back of the, and the trivia question that is, you know, Milli Vanilli - I feel like a lot of it nowadays is, like, boiled down to a trivia question, and there's so much more there.
Matthew 38:46
Yeah.
Bradley Jackson 38:47
It's not just two guys decided to lip sync. There's a tangled web, and it's fascinating, and it's funny, and it's tragic, and it's sad, and it's really entertaining.
Matthew 38:59
Well, you - I mean; so, you've got this, I don't know how unique, but you've definitely got a unique perspective as someone who's a screenwriter, also, director and, I mean, it's interesting, you must be - you have this eye for a good story, and then finding it. I mean, Nolan seemed like an obvious one, but something like Milli Vanilli or what other great docs do, which is maybe shed a new light or bring a story that's just, you know, better than fiction in many cases.
Bradley Jackson 39:34
Yeah. To me, it's like, if it's a screenplay idea, or if it's a documentary, I feel like it needs to have lived in my head for at least a couple of weeks and I don't forget about it. That's kind of one of those things where it's, like, if you can't shake an idea, then that usually means it's worth pursuing and, you know, Millie Vanilli - Nolan was one of those ones where it popped into my head - it wasn't like I had been dreaming of a Nolan Ryan documentary from Day One. It popped in my head, and I was, like, Well, this is a no - if we can do this, it's a no brainer. The Milli Vanilli one was one that had been in my head for probably 10 years. Because, you know, there was The Behind the Music that was made about them on VH1, but there really hasn't been a true, definitive telling of what actually happened. And, yeah, that's one that the fact that we get to make that is definitely very exciting.
Matthew 40:28
And those Behind the Music ones are a bit...
Bradley Jackson 40:31
Yeah, they're a bit dated...
Matthew 40:33
... and cursory and kind of...
Bradley Jackson 40:35
Yeah. exactly.
Matthew 40:37
Well, definitely. I saw that on your IMDB profile. I have to say, I don't ask those questions, anymore, because half the time I would ask people about it, and they would say, I'm not making that movie, or, I don't know what you're talking about, or, Hasn't been announced, yet. But, no, that's definitely - we would love to have you on, again. Because I think that's going to be another great doc. So, thanks again, so much, Bradley Jackson, director of Facing Nolan. Premiered at South by Southwest earlier this year. It's in theaters in the US and you can get it on-demand from July 19. So, Bradley, thanks again. It's been a joy talking with you.
Bradley Jackson 41:18
Thank you so much for having me on.
Matthew 41:20
All right, take care.
Bradley Jackson 41:21
Thank you.
Matthew 41:24
I'd like to give a shout out to Sam and Joe Graves at Innersound Audio, in Escrick, England, in deepest, darkest Yorkshire. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, podcast manager at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show. And finally a big thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas. You can reach out to us on YouTube, social media, or directly by going to our website, www.factualamerica.com, and clicking on the Get in Touch link. And, as always, please remember to like us and share us with your friends and family wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 42:05
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