Carlos Santana: Discovering the Spirit of the Man.
Carlos is a documentary that takes the viewer from legendary guitarist Carlos Santana’s beginnings in Mexico to concerts across the world in a musical career that has lasted over fifty years. It goes off-stage as well, exploring his spiritual journey and life with his family, from mother and father, to siblings, and children.
In this episode of Factual America, Matthew Sherwood meets Carlos’ director, Rudy Valdez, to discuss Santana’s storied life. Their conversation reveals Carlos as an innovative and laser-focused musician, a story teller with a brilliant memory, and a man always seeking to go further, deeper and higher, whether in his music or life beyond.
In addition, Rudy shares how he came to direct Carlos almost despite himself, the intimate nature of the documentary’s production, and his determination to create a film that felt just like you were hanging out with Carlos himself, something that for Matthew made the film very cool, indeed!
From fame to family, stardom to spirituality, mysterious tapes and revealing videos of walls, this episode of Factual America takes you from the past, into the present, and maybe even to the future. Plus at the end of the episode Matthew and Rudy have a conversation about the Golden Age of documentary: how Rudy defines it, its duration, and where he believes documentary film making finds itself now.
“... what we always tried to do throughout this process is show the music, show it in relation to spirituality, show spirituality and the relation to family. And... come back to music, come back to spirituality, come back to family... all of those things were part of this collective consciousness for Carlos and they were always equally driving his journey and his life...” – Rudy Valdez
Timestamps
00:00 – Trailer for Carlos
00:40 – Matthew Sherwood introduces this episode’s guest: Rudy Valdez, director of Carlos
02:46 – Rudy explains what Carlos is about
06:05 – Carlos Santana: much more than simply a rock musician
08:50 – How Rudy got to know and built trust with Carlos
14:20 – How Rudy became involved with the film
18:19 – Rudy’s approach to making Carlos the film and Carlos the man’s approach to making music
22:56 – The pros and cons of self-shooting
24:11 – How Rudy avoided production difficulties
26:36 – Carlos’ family
28:21 – The three constants of Carlos Santana’s life: music, spirituality, and family
29:47 – Carlos the film: innovative and cutting edge
31:19 – What next for Rudy
32:50 – Discussing the Golden Age of documentary
33:37 – How the Golden Age of documentary helped democratise documentary filmmaking and how, in Rudy’s view, it ended
36:53 – The importance of perspective in documentary filmmaking
38:47 – Discussing Sam Pollard, his view of the Golden Age, and his kindness to Rudy
44:08 – Rudy on how he got into documentary filmmaking
Resources:
Carlos
MovieMaker Magazine
Innersound Audio
Alamo Pictures
Connect with Rudy Valdez
More from Factual America:
Wayne Shorter: Visionary, Innovator, Icon and Human Being
Early 2000s New York: the Last Romantic Age of Rock’n’Roll
Jason Isbell: Portrait of the Musician as a Young Man
How to Pitch a Documentary to Paramount+
How to Pitch a Documentary to Hulu
Best Cameras for Filmmaking on a Budget: Top Affordable Picks
Transcript for Factual America Episode 146: Carlos Santana: Discovering the Spirit of the Man.
Matthew Sherwood 00:00 (00:40)
This is Factual America. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. Carlos reveals the man behind the rock legend, Carlos Santana. Beyond all the Grammys and other accolades is a seeker who is rooted to his music and family. Or, to paraphrase Carlos' own words, the documentary is a story of triumph, confidence, and vitality, and represents a collective consciousness that there are no borders or flags that can contain one's passion. A story of heart. Emmy winning producer and director, Rudy Valdez, joins us to talk about creating a film that feels just like hanging out with Carlos Santana, as one of Carlos' friends put it. We even managed to discuss that old nugget, the Golden Age of documentaries. You won't want to miss this. Stay tuned.
Matthew Sherwood 00:58
Rudy Valdez, welcome to Factual America. How are things with you?
Rudy Valdez 01:03
Things are well. Thank you so much for having me.
Matthew Sherwood 01:05
Yeah, it's great to have you on. To remind our listeners and viewers we will be talking to you about Carlos. The documentary feature that premiered at Tribeca earlier this year. It's had a theatrical release. And I gather it's not streaming yet, is that correct?
Rudy Valdez 01:23
It is not. Not yet.
Matthew Sherwood 01:24
But soon, I imagine.
Rudy Valdez 01:27
I hope!
Matthew Sherwood 01:29
Exactly. Well, welcome again, and congratulations on getting this great doc done. And you must be quite happy with the reception it's had so far.
Rudy Valdez 01:40
Yeah, I mean, I'm very proud of the film. You know, I think that we set out to do something, and I think we accomplished it, which to me at the end of the film, when you sort of are able to start from nothing, and then have this vision for something and hope that it works, and then you sort of watch it for that final time without being able to take notes or change anything and be like, Okay, this is what we wanted to do. Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 02:01 (02:46)
Well, before we talk about what you wanted to achieve, and how you achieved it, seems like a stupid question to ask, but what is Carlos all about? Maybe you can give us - I mean, it's more than just Carlos Santana, I think, but just maybe you can give us a synopsis for those who - well, for most of our audience who will not have seen it.
Rudy Valdez 02:19
Well, first I'll say, you know, as a former elementary school teacher, there are no stupid questions! No, it's, you know, the film is about Carlos Santana. And, you know, it sets out to try and tell you a sort of a well-rounded version of who he is. You know, we call it Carlos, because I didn't want to just do this recap of the band Santana, I sort of wanted you to see the life and times of Carlos, you know, the young man from Autlán who moved to Tijuana, and eventually to San Francisco, and then, you know, became this global icon, in a way, and I wanted you to be very grounded in who he is, as a human being, as well as a musician.
Matthew Sherwood 03:00
Yeah, and I guess Carlos leaves a little bit of a doubt. If you'd call it Santana, I think everybody immediately knows what it's - but, I mean, it feels odd for me to ask this as well, because I'm of a certain age, so - but there will be people in audience who may not be absolutely, or not fans, who don't know that much about Carlos. I mean, he had this - he's had, and still has, this absolutely incredible, amazing career, hasn't he?
Rudy Valdez 03:30
Yeah, it's fascinating. And I think, you know, as you're saying, there are people of a certain age who know him from Woodstock, but then there's this whole other group of people who know him from Supernatural. And then there's, you know, there are people who can dive into his career at any time over the past 50 years, and be like, Oh, who is this? Like, and maybe not even always realise that he's behind a lot of songs that you may not even know that he was a part of, and soundtracks, and, you know, things like that. And so, it's fascinating, because, you know, one of the questions and you'll probably ask, as well, like, why now? Like, you know, why tell this story now? And I think, you know, that's a great question because I feel like at any time, you know, post 1970, you could have been like, Okay, let's tell the story of this guy, Carlos Santana, because what a remarkable journey he's had, and you could have stopped in the '80s and told that story, you could have stopped in the '90s and told that story, you could have stopped, you know, in 2010, and told that story. And as wonderful as that sounds like, that was also a very daunting thing. You know, as the years go on, you know, there's more to tell.
Matthew Sherwood 04:40
Yeah, well, I think - I mean - well, I'm gonna ask that follow-up question, actually, in a few minutes, but, you know, he is this incredible - you know, it's overused, but he's a visionary, he's a pioneer, he's - I mean, we even had - we had the filmmaker behind the Wayne Shorter doc that actually dropped almost the exact same time, and he collaborated with one of the greatest jazz musicians of all time. You know, it's...
Rudy Valdez 05:07
Yes.
Matthew Sherwood 05:07 (06:05)
... this incredible current, as you say, how do you put all 50 years of that into, you know, 90 minutes. Must be daunting. But he's - your film basically - he's much more than a rock musician, isn't he?
Rudy Valdez 05:24
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think, you know, that was one of the things that I, you know, early on, when we had our first cut, and we were able to show it to - I kind of like to hold cuts very close, and let my internal team really work on it because, you know, I feel like there are different stages where, even at the beginning of this, we're like, is what we're trying to do going to work and blah, blah, blah. And the first time we showed it to a couple of people that knew Carlos, one of my favourite responses, and the thing that made me feel like we're doing the right thing is, you know, obviously, they had a bunch of really wonderful things to say, which are always great, but I think the best compliment was, You know what it felt like, Rudy? It felt like, what it's like to just hang out with Carlos and hear his stories. And I was like, That's what we're going for! Because, you know, I want you to feel like you're getting, you know, a peek behind the curtain, because he's a phenomenal storyteller. He has an unbelievable memory, and just this ability to conjure up stories from the '60s, the '70s, the '80s, the '90s, the 2000s, 2010s: all within themselves, and I wanted you to be able to hear that from him, and peek behind that curtain that, you know, of course, he's a great musician, and we'll have the music, but I wanted you to know, the person behind it.
Matthew Sherwood 06:48
I think that's a very good way that person's described it, because I was trying to figure out what it felt like to me. And that's exactly what it felt like. It felt like, I just spent 90 minutes hanging out with Carlos Santana, and that is so damn cool. You know, for those of us who don't have that ability or privilege to do that. It's - yeah, you just kind of - he's just having a conversation with us and through different ways, right.
Rudy Valdez 07:14
Exactly. And that was the hope from the beginning. You know, it's - from the way we approached the filming of it, from the way we approached, sort of collaborating with him on it. I remember the first time we showed up at his offices, they were like, Yeah, you and your team can park up front. And they had reserved like four or five parking spots. And, you know, I came in one car with, like, my producer, and the sound person, and they were like, Where's your team? And I was like, I am the team. They're like, What?? But I wanted it to feel very - and I think Carlos may at the beginning have been like, Is this a real thing?
Matthew Sherwood 07:49
Exactly.
Rudy Valdez 07:51
But I wanted it to be intimate. I wanted him to, you know, forget at times that I'm holding a camera and just talk.
Matthew Sherwood 07:57
Yeah. And what did you - I mean, what did you discover about him in making this film, you know, and what's...
Rudy Valdez 08:04
You know...
Matthew Sherwood 08:04
... and what surprised you most?
Rudy Valdez 08:06 (08:50)
What's interesting is when we started this project, it was just before the pandemic. He was getting ready to go on tour with Earth, Wind and Fire. And the original intro to it was going to be, you know, I was going to meet him on a couple of dates on the tour. And we were going to talk and I was going to film a little bit, and we'd get to know each other that way. And then the pandemic hits, and the lockdown happens, and obviously, the tour is cancelled. But we didn't want to prolong - we didn't want to, you know, be like, Okay, we'll come back to you after whatever this is, is over. We decided to start having phone conversations and Zooms. And initially, those were going to be things that we were like, we'll record these, and we'll maybe use them in the film, because it's going to be a lot of archive and all that. But very quickly, they turned from - I think I even stopped recording them. They turned from, you know, trying to do these interviews to he and I just chatting and getting to know each other, and, you know, he asked a lot about my life, I asked a lot about his life. And we just sort of got to know each other. And I think, for us, for this project, that was really, really special. Because by the time we were able to really start production and sit down with each other, and I was able to walk in with the camera, a lot of barriers had been crossed at that point, and we had a trust with each other. So, but one of the things - and the other thing, I think that happened from those initial conversations, I realised immediately that he has such a grasp of his story. And he's so entertaining in telling it that immediately I thought, I don't want to interview other people about what they thought Carlos was or is. I didn't want people trying to recollect. In the back of my mind. I thought if people were truly on his trajectory, a part of his life, a part of his journey, we're going to find that in the archive. We're going to see those people like Bill Graham, like Clive Davis; you know, we're going to see all of those people. And so, I wanted you to be in Carlos' voice throughout this.
Matthew Sherwood 10:06
And...
Rudy Valdez 10:06
That's what I learned, yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 10:08
And yes, I mean, I would - I think a joy in life would certainly be to hang out with Carlos Santana. I mean, he is such an entertaining - I mean, that must have been so much fun to do. But at the same time, I think what comes out as well, I mean, he's not just this, you know, just this happy go lucky rock musician. I mean, he's a perfectionist, isn't he? He's very disciplined. He's focused like a laser beam, which seems to come from his mother, I think comes out in the film.
Rudy Valdez 10:37
Yeah, he's this wonderful mix of, you know, the things that you hear about him, the sort of, they say 'Cosmic Carlos', but this, you know, very - again, they call him far out, he calls himself far in, but his way of thinking, his almost jazz way of thinking, mixed with, as you're saying, this laser focused discipline to the music, and when those two things really collide for him, you know, that's where this music and this sound and this amazing career comes from, because he is able to think outside of the box as much as he wants to, while still maintaining this forward motion of continuing to create. And it's fascinating every single day. I mean, one of the things that you see in the doc that - in the documentary - is there are times when he's playing the guitar, and it's just like me and him in the room, and I'm filming that. But that wasn't ever me saying, Okay, you come into this room and play the guitar, and I'm gonna film you. He's just - when he's - he's just picking up a guitar, and he's doing it because that's what he loves to do. And a couple of those times, I wasn't even in the room. He was just in the other room playing and I sort of slowly walk in with the camera, but it wasn't like, Okay, now you rock out, and I'm gonna get this footage. It's just he's always playing. He's always thinking of music. He's always listening to music. It's such a part of him all the time. So, I - yeah. I learned a lot about Carlos throughout this process, and that discipline, and that constant love of music was one of those things.
Matthew Sherwood 12:10
And does that make it challenging to make this doc? Because he must be - because he is the perf - you know, because of who he is, he's going to be all over you, if you're not doing - if you're not living up to a certain standard, aren't you? Isn't it?
Rudy Valdez 12:21
Yes. Yeah, I think that he, I think that he certainly had a lot of expectations about what this could and should be. And I think that one of the things that I always tried to have a conversation with him about from the beginning, all the way till the end, all the way until we were premiering at Tribeca is, you know, that we're making this film, and we're making it for the right reasons in the right way. You know, I think very early on, he saw where my heart was, in how I wanted to approach this film and how I wanted to tell his story. And I think, as he continued to see not only the progression of this film, and how I'm filming and the questions that I'm asking, I think he also saw some of my other films and saw the process of which I make them and what I want to do with them. And I think that was always this other balancing thing of he had a certain amount of trust in me, as we continued to go, which I am forever grateful for because I don't know, that I could trust somebody to tell my story. You know, that's a big ask. You know, that's a big, that's a big thing, especially for somebody like him who hasn't had a documentary made about him.
Matthew Sherwood 13:32
Which is remarkable.
Rudy Valdez 13:35
Yeah!
Matthew Sherwood 13:36 (14:20)
I mean, how did you become involved with this project? Was it your idea?
Rudy Valdez 13:40
I wish! The funny thing is, I was doing a project with Imagine Documentaries. I was doing a series for Netflix. And that series was going pretty well. We were in production on it, it was going pretty well. And Justin Wilkes came to me and said, you know, What are you thinking about next? You know, we're really loving what you're doing here. Do you have any thoughts? And, you know, a couple weeks earlier, I had seen in Variety, or Deadline, or one of those two, that Imagine had struck a deal with Carlos to do a documentary. And I remember thinking, Ah, who gets to make that?? I was like, That's amazing. And I was just like, I'd love to just be a part of that. But I didn't say anything. And it's not like I thought I deserved to do it, but I really just wanted to be on the team, you know, doing that. And so, when they asked me what I wanted to do next, I actually pitched them a different music documentary. And they were like, a music documentary? And I was like, Yeah, and they're like, Okay, we'll get back to you. And then a couple weeks later, I get a call and they're like, Can you go to Vegas? I was like, Sure. And next thing I know, we're on a plane to Vegas to go and meet Carlos. And that's sort of how it happened. I met him and his team and we all seemed to be on the same page and we're like, Okay, let's move forward. And I don't - luck, you know, I think luck is the short answer.
Matthew Sherwood 15:03
Well, you're in the right place at the right time. You've...
Rudy Valdez 15:05
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 15:05
... you make your own luck. But yes, yeah. I mean, that's...
Rudy Valdez 15:09
Yeah, yeah, I always try to balance those two things, because I never want to speak lightly of the hard work. But I also never want to speak lightly of the luck that is often - I think that they're sort of half-and-half here, you know, of the hard work and dedication. But also, like you said, just being at the right place and the right time, and being ready.
Matthew Sherwood 15:33
Yeah, I mean, it even comes out in your doc, right, with Carlos. I mean, he just happens to be climbing the pipes up to the Fillmore and gets in there, and there's Cream, and he gets to jam with Cream, right, you know, and the rest is history practically, you know, so...
Rudy Valdez 15:48
Yeah, yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 15:50
Well, I think that takes us to a point to have a quick early break. So, we'll be right back with Rudy Valdez, producer and director of Carlos. So, on theatrical release, and will be streaming somewhere soon, we certainly hope.
Factual America Midroll 16:08
You're listening to Factual America. Subscribe to our mailing list, or follow us on Facebook, Instagram, or X, to keep up-to-date with new releases for upcoming shows. Check out the show notes to learn more about the programme, our guests, and the team behind the production. Now back to Factual America.
Matthew Sherwood 16:26
Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with Rudy Valdez, the Emmy award-winning producer and director of Carlos. Premiered at Tribeca. It's on theatrical release, certainly in the US; is it on theatrical release anywhere else?
Rudy Valdez 16:38
It was. So, they did a special global event with it. So, it was all over - I think now it's just in the US.
Matthew Sherwood 16:44
Okay, just but...
Rudy Valdez 16:45
I think.
Matthew Sherwood 16:45
... will be - yeah. Don't hold us to that, but we know this definitely will be streaming somewhere soon. So, be on the lookout for it. So, we're talking about making a documentary about and with Carlos Santana. I mean, you've kind of already talked about it, but, you know, how do you structure a film about someone who doesn't believe in limits, and is always pushing boundaries, and, you know, and you want to tell that story in the same spirit? I mean, you already said you wanted it to be this conversation to - so, people get to know - got to know Carlos. But, you know, that's - it is quite daunting, isn't it? To try to live up to his artistic vision.
Rudy Valdez 17:34 (18:19)
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I was obviously unbelievably thrilled to be able to do this film, to be asked to do this film, and to come on, but I remember shortly after, everything was like, Okay, we're a go. I was like, Oh, crap. Like, the only thing, the only thing that I can do here is mess this up, because he's got such a wonderful career and story, it's like, all I can do is not do it justice. So, I really, you know, I worked very hard on figuring out how we were going to approach this in a way that did justice to his story and his journey. And, you know, I approached it the way I approach every other film, and I try not to come on and be an expert, especially at the beginning. I don't come on and try to say, this is how I'm going to tell your story, this is what it is, and this is the only way that it works. I really tried to, you know, cover my bases at the beginning and understand that we're gathering footage and figuring out what this is, but I kind of as, you know, artsy-fartsy as it sounds; like, I try to listen, I try to figure out what the story wants to be, and I think at the beginning, hearing Carlos tell his stories was that first little signal to me that I want this to be in his voice. And then, you know, after a while, I was able to go and look through his archive, and, you know, he has tonnes of archive, tonnes of archive. And we were looking through and it was like, you know, that documentary gold moment where you're looking through boxes and I picked up this box and I remember thinking it's a little heavier than - because there was nothing really in it. I was like, a little heavier than it feels. And I noticed that it was actually a box inside of a box. And I pulled out the sort of inner box and looked underneath. And there were like, eight unmarked tapes. And it was like that scene in Pulp Fiction, you know, they open up and find gold, you know. I was like, Okay, okay, there are tapes here. They're not marked, they, like one of them had, like, one of them said, like, family, and I was like, All right, I can't, I have to, I have to, and I picked them up, you know, very gently, and we had a little deck that was there that we could look at different sorts of tapes, and I put one in and I started watching, and it was just this wall. And I was like, Oh great. Like I'm gonna watch 55 minutes of somebody, you know, literally paint dry; like, literally, and I was like, but I'm gonna see this through. I'm gonna see what this is. And then all of a sudden, Carlos walks in front of the camera and he straps on a guitar. And he starts playing. And there's nobody in the room, there's nobody doing - like, around. He's just playing for himself. And I start hearing the music that he's playing. And I said, Okay, this is going to be in Carlos' voice. It's going to be in Carlos' hands, these tapes, if this is what I think they are, these are going to be the score. These are going to be the bed that we're living in, throughout this. So, those things just as you progress throughout the process of searching and investigating, to me become the little bedrocks that we start to lay the foundation with. And it luckily worked out. You know, I think early on when I said I didn't want to interview other people, producers were like, well, let's put a pin in that...
Matthew Sherwood 20:47
Right.
Rudy Valdez 20:48
... you know, so I wanted to go as far as I could, and see if I could make that happen.
Matthew Sherwood 20:51
I mean, what was it because there's - that shows up throughout the doc where he just kind of randomly walks into a room, straps a guitar, and starts playing. Was he just always - had cameras running, and he would just - when he happened to pick up the guitar, so he'd capture it?
Rudy Valdez 21:08
Yeah, it was all him. Like, he'd be in hotel rooms, at his homes. Like, all over the place, he would just - and I think it was him practising. And, you know, he was probably looking at the - you could see sometimes he's looking at the - probably the flipped over monitor, and, like, watching his form and watching those things. But I think sometimes he's just jamming. And he's just talking, and he's singing, and he's doing all these things. And to me, that was just - it was amazing, because he wasn't doing it in front of 70,000 people. He wasn't doing it in front of, you know, executives, he was doing it for himself. He was learning and playing and loving. And that's what I learned of him early on is that he's just always playing.
Matthew Sherwood 21:49
Yeah, no, it's - I mean, it's remarkable. He's literally - he's just hanging out in his house in various states of undress and just kind of - just puts it on, you can tell it's at different ages. It's not all in one time period or whatever, you know, it's...
Rudy Valdez 22:05
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 22:06 (22:56)
... no, that's amazing. I mean, you were, as you said, you also - you said you came and it was just you, a sound guy, and producer, rocked up.
Rudy Valdez 22:18
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 22:18
So, you're self-shooting is that right?
Rudy Valdez 22:20
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 22:21
And - yeah - so, you - cinematographer as well. So, if you don't pull it off, you only have yourself to blame. Is that...?
Rudy Valdez 22:30
Exactly! That's, you know, people are always like, Aren't you so grateful that, you know, you're done with the film? Like, isn't it a big weight off, I'm like, Well, yeah, but it's like, there's not like - somebody can be like, It was good, but the cinematography was kind of bad, or like, It was shot well, but the story - like, there's always a section with like, Well, that was my fault. So, but in the same respect, I think, though, the trade-off for that is, I think, the intimacy that I'm able to gain in those moments; so, it's a fair trade-off for me, because I love that pressure. And that idea that I'm just in there with a camera. It feels very much like my first film. You know, I try to gather a lot of those same emotions of when I made my first film, and it was all me doing sound, producing, shooting. Like, doing all of the things, and it feels - that feels like my sweet spot, you know, being in there alone sometimes.
Matthew Sherwood 23:27 (24:11)
And something you said just a few minutes ago, saying, you know, kind of like letting this thing happen, and, you know, producers maybe putting a pin in that. I mean, luckily, the - you know, it'd been decided, they're making a doc about Carlos, you're brought in, but you must - so, you got to avoid that sort of difficult conversation that I think a lot of filmmakers must - do have when they're trying to pitch their projects to whoever. So, what is this going to look like? What is the story? You know, isn't that - what I hear - I mean, I'm not one myself, but the filmmakers I talk to they just, you know, true documentary filmmaker, you often don't know.
Rudy Valdez 24:10
Right, right. And I think to be fair, especially to my producers, you know, this was certainly a vision that I proposed early on, and I think the reason why I'm able to propose those visions is because ultimately, they understand that above anything, as a filmmaker, as a director, I'm a collaborator. And I realise that there are a lot of people who are a part of this and who are championing this film and all the other films, and so, they know that if we were to get a little ways in and it wasn't working, I would say, Okay, let's figure out what can make it work. I'm not gonna go to the end, you know, fighting, kicking, and screaming, like, No, this is my vision and the only way that it happens, but I think that that affords me a certain freedom, especially at the beginning where they're like, Okay, try it out. Because they know that I will work with them if they're like, This isn't working, and I'll say, Okay, well, let's figure out what can work and how we can do this. But I always appreciate the beginning, especially working with really wonderful producers and creatives who are like, Okay, go out and see if that works as opposed to being like, it's not going to work. And we're not even going to try it, you know.
Matthew Sherwood 25:21
Right, right. And we need three episodes, or we need...
Rudy Valdez 25:24
Yeah. Ten episodes!
Matthew Sherwood 25:27
Well, thank God, those days are gone. But the - and the thing that you said earlier, you know, you quickly realised you're not bringing people on to talk about who Carlos was, and they'll come out in the story, anyway. But there are - you do have some people, people who are very close to Carlos; you bring his family in. There's a few scenes and that's - they're the only other ones that come in, really.
Rudy Valdez 25:52 (26:36)
They are, and that was super organic, too. We went over to where Carlos was that day, and I was filming and we were in Vegas. And, you know, his sisters were there, you know, because they live close. And obviously, his wife was there, and they're just chatting. And, you know, I was like, I'm gonna film, I'm gonna start filming. And so, it felt like a really great moment. And to be honest, when we shot it, I was like, I don't know how we'll use this because of the structure of the film, but we figured out a way to kick off who he was, you know, by hearing. And I like a little bit of that perspective, especially of the times of Carlos of, like, his build, and his sisters being able to say, you know, We didn't know where Carlos was, and their ability to reflect on his constant search for spirituality. Like, they gave a little bit of perspective that I think wasn't there, that he couldn't give himself because I think we needed a little bit of outside perspective, but still within the family of what was happening in his musical journey, in his spiritual journey, and all of those things. So, we figured out a way for those to fit in.
Matthew Sherwood 26:56
And ultimately, it does get back to mom and dad, it seems, which is - I mean, I don't know if this is - I came across something - I guess it's like something Sony Pictures put out - but basically, supposedly, it's a quote from Carlos, but basically saying he wanted to share his mother's and father's frequencies, as he put it, and principles of how they raised and influenced my professional and personal life. Represents to me a collective consciousness that there are no borders or flags that can contain one's passion. And that's, maybe that's back to Cosmic Carlos a bit. But, no, he's very well grounded in family, which is what also comes across.
Rudy Valdez 27:37 (28:21)
Yeah, and I think that, you know, that was one of the things that I really wanted to, you know, in the cut, in the making of the film, one of the things that I think is both beautiful, but also very difficult to do throughout the film is, there's this sort of three things that are constant in his life, obviously, music; you know, music plays such a big part of his life, and if you research him, that's what comes up. And then if you continue to research him, the next thing that comes up is spirituality. You know, so you have music, and you have spirituality, and those are the big things. But I think just as important to Carlos and just as big an influence, and big a part of his journey as music and spirituality is family, you know, and his relationship with his mother and his father, and then eventually his children. And what we always tried to do throughout this process is show the music, show it in relation to spirituality, show spirituality and the relation to family. And before we got too far down the rabbit hole, come back to music, come back to spirituality, come back to family, and then eventually realise that all of those things were part of this collective consciousness for Carlos and they were always equally driving his journey and his life, even if you felt like it was just spirituality, or even if you felt like it was just music, they were all equally a part of driving who he is.
Matthew Sherwood 29:02 (29:47)
It's a great story. And I think you've captured it extremely well, and have told it very well. And I do highly recommend when people do get a chance to see it that they do, because I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought it was just - you know, it felt - you know, I'm really good with backhanded compliments, but it came across as being innovative and cutting edge without being that way, you know, in your face. You know, it was just kind of - it wasn't until you'd actually watched, like you said, I think earlier, it wasn't till you watched the whole thing, you realised, Wow, that's what I've just seen, you know, that's just kind of, you know, so...
Rudy Valdez 29:45
And I'd like to say, like, I'd like to be like, Oh, that's exactly what I was going for. Like, it's not, you know, we, you know, but we, you know, I think that the end result of something if you stay close to the reason why you're making it throughout, you know, you're surprised sometimes at the end result but I think if I were going in and saying, I'm going to be so innovative, that people are going to be innovated the crap out of when they watch, but no, it was just like listening to what it was and what it needed to be. And I think sometimes that is innovative, you know, just listening and letting a story tell you, you know, what it needs to be.
Matthew Sherwood 30:22
And even if you're not into any of those things, you get 90 minutes of some amazing music. So, you know, at the very least, so you're gonna, you're not gonna, you know, you at least get that out of it.
Rudy Valdez 30:33
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 30:35 (31:19)
I think we're coming to the end of our time together, but what's next for you?
Rudy Valdez 30:39
So, I'm doing - before, you know, the writers' strike, and before the SAG strike and everything - I had a couple of scripted projects that I had written that I'm working on. So, that's been a little bit on pause. I have a new music documentary that I'm...
Matthew Sherwood 30:54
Okay.
Rudy Valdez 30:55
... diving into right now that I can't say what it is - yet! But I'm very excited about it, and, you know, I think for me, my career, I've tried very hard to be very diverse in the types of stories and the reason why I tell stories, and so, just continuing to do that, even though I've about two or three other projects that couldn't be farther from, you know, the origins and the reasoning and the themes and all those things, and that's on purpose. You know, that's because I feared so much, especially early in my career, being pigeon holed and so, I want to be able to tell all these vastly different stories. So, I have a few different things coming out in the next couple years.
Matthew Sherwood 31:39
Well, we look forward to seeing them. And if we haven't scared you off, we'd love to have you on again. So...
Rudy Valdez 31:45
I really appreciate you having me on. I love your podcast, I think it's - when I got the first email about being on it, I was like, Me? What do they want to talk to me about? But...
Matthew Sherwood 31:55
Have you come across us before?
Rudy Valdez 31:58
Oh, yeah. I've listened to a few epi - I actually just recently listened to the Brett Morgan one. The Moonage Daydream episode very recently.
Matthew Sherwood 32:06
Yeah, so...
Rudy Valdez 32:06 (32:50)
I was hoping you'd talk to me about the Golden Age of documentary.
Matthew Sherwood 32:12
Oh, right.
Rudy Valdez 32:12
Because I have my own very different opinions about it than he does. But...
Matthew Sherwood 32:18
Do you?
Rudy Valdez 32:18
Yeah!
Matthew Sherwood 32:20
What are your different opinions?
Rudy Valdez 32:23
Well, you know, I think - the way I look at the Golden Age of documentary is, it isn't this period where all of a sudden a bunch of stuff was happening, and people - I think that the start of the Golden Age of documentary is equity, is, you know, it was that moment - you know, I was very fortunate to just be starting, when this Golden Age started, and that Golden Age, to me, is the reason why I could make my first film.
Matthew Sherwood 32:53
Right.
Rudy Valdez 32:53 (33:37)
I was able to afford and have a camera in my hand, that could deliver something, and that changed everything. All of a sudden, everyone I knew who were PAs, and editors, and interns, and things, we all of a sudden had something in our hands, with this little 5D with a 51 - most of my first film was shot on a 5D 1.2. lens because that's all I had...
Matthew Sherwood 33:17
Right.
Rudy Valdez 33:17
... but it allowed me to create images that people could look at and not immediately go, What did you shoot that on, though? They're engaged in it. So, then I could say, I have this ability. Now I can tell great stories, because people aren't immediately turned off by the fact that I'm shooting on this three chip camera or that I simply can't shoot because I don't have anything in my hands. And I think that what that did was that changed the entire paradigm of, of all the people who had access to things in the past realised, here are new filmmakers with innovative ideas and new approaches to story. We need to up our game as well, which caused everyone to say, let's all figure out how to diversify, change, and make documentary elevated even more, which is where it all came from. And then all of a sudden, I think we're out of the age of, the Golden Age of documentary, because then all of a sudden, you started to see things like, well, is that a Netflix approved camera? Or is that a this camera? Or is that a camera? And then all of a sudden, it's like, the thing you're holding in your hand that you were telling stories with for three years is not acceptable, anymore. You have to have this other thing, you have to have this other thing. And so, we're going back into a haves-and-have-nots in documentary now, where, you know, if you're lucky enough to create a name for yourself during that process, you've upped your ante a little bit, and I have cameras now that I can shoot anything with. But now, kids who are coming on are like, Well, I have to have this 4k camera with this thing, and this thing, and I have to do this. They can't - they can no longer just shoot it on their iPhone. They can no longer just do these things because that has now gone by - gone away because now streamers and networks are like, Well, it needs to be this, or it has to have this, and it has to have this; and so, immediately, that cuts the legs, but I think that there are other versions - you know, even Tik-Tok, and even - like, there are other ways that people are getting stories out that are still controlled in their hands, but they're not the way it was, like, in 2009, and '10, and '11, where we were out shooting feature films with a [...] adapter on the front and creating this shallow depth of field and all this stuff, and it was becoming acceptable, an acceptable format for people to make films with.
Matthew Sherwood 35:25
And the amazing - I mean, what I've - you know, what I've picked up on is just this incredible, you know, all these stories that we'd never - perspectives we'd never heard from before. You know, because obviously there had been people of colour and women directors everything before. So, that was, you know, it wasn't - but it was just this breadth of voices that were, you know, coming to the fore. I don't remember what - I mean, you talked about blacking out, and if - but I don't even remember what Brett exactly said. We don't need to put words in his mouth, we'll tell people to go to that.
Rudy Valdez 36:06 (36:53)
Yeah, you should listen. I just think, like you're saying, it's all different perspectives, it's different perspectives. And I think you hit the nail on the head of, yes, there were certainly directors of colour and women directors at that time. But like, I think about my first film, and I started shooting this thing kind of in secret. And I remember sharing it with somebody who I really, really respected, a really well known filmmaker; I was able enough to sort of get in the room, and immediately, he was taken aback by what I was making. And he was like, I've already made that film, who cares? And I remember thinking, What? Like, but this is from my perspective, and I've prided myself from that moment of saying, you know, I took that, 'who cares?' that he said to me, and I said, Who does care? Like, why would somebody care about this, and care about my POV. And that became my sort of rallying call to be able to tell stories from where I'm from, from what I look like, from my personal experience, and making it relatable to broader audiences. Because, you know, I'm all for everybody telling everyone's stories, because I think different viewpoints are important. And along with that, I have to understand that my viewpoint is also important. And I think that that's part of the Golden Age of documentaries, people were all of a sudden, realising, Oh, my POV is very important in the landscape of what we're trying to do in documentary. And I feel that being smushed a little bit now and being taken away. But I think that's the true Golden Age of documentary when POVs were sort of coming at you, and they were valid, and they were stories that were born and bred from somebody who wasn't shooting from a voyeuristic lens, but an intimate lens. And I think that's the big difference. And that's what we're sort of getting away from. It feels like a lot of times now.
Matthew Sherwood 38:02 (38:47)
And I think, sort of related, we had - we were very fortunate to have Sam Pollard on this podcast a few years ago...
Rudy Valdez 38:08
I love Sam Pollard.
Matthew Sherwood 38:09
Yeah. And it was actually - we filmed on the day of January 6, but so, and it was...
Rudy Valdez 38:18
Was he preoccupied the whole time...?
Matthew Sherwood 38:19
No, no, we didn't know it was gonna happen. It was very prescient. We have this - this the one thing I have listened to again, I never listen to these things after the recording, because I'm - like you, I'm afraid of being - what I might have said, or didn't say, or all my hemming, hawings, and stuff like that. But he's like, we're talking about what 2020 had been like. And it's, you know, was it - does this feel like, because he's an old - you know, he's older, he's - I said, Does this feel like 1968 to you? He goes, Yes, it feels exactly what 1968 was like. Then we're talking about everything's going on with Trump and then he's like, You know, he's not gonna go away quietly. I was like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. And then, you know, I get home, my kids have the TV on, they're like, Daddy, have you seen what's happening? It's like, but he said - I asked it because I used to - I stopped asking, well, I guess I did ask Brett, obviously, but I haven't really been asking that Golden Age documentary question very much. But his point was that, yes, there are a lot more projects, you know, from his standpoint, a lot more projects out there. But they're all coming to him. You know, and people like him, of his experience, you know; he's got four or five offers, you know, but what about all those new people coming up who should have this opportunity, you know.
Rudy Valdez 39:42
Yeah.
Matthew Sherwood 39:42
And I think that was his point that...
Rudy Valdez 39:44
That was one of the things I love about Sam, too, is, you know, I wish that other young filmmakers or people, you know, working their way through this process would have the opportunity, like I had, to work with Sam, you know, early in my career as a camera operator in, like, different ways, because he just gave you that impression, even, you know, I was shooting something for him on one of his projects. And even though he was the director, executive producer of all these things, he had a way of letting you know, you belong here, you can be doing this, too. And then he came on to - he executive produced Carlos, he executive produced - he came on as a producer for my Saints project. And I think, you know, while he would give me notes and give me these things, he also always was great about letting me know, that I'm on the right track, that what I have coming out of me is on the right track. And that was so - not only inspiring, but motivating. And, you know, I've had - I've been, like, I've worked under Sam Pollard. Geeta Gandbhir, Joe Brewster, Michelle, you know, Jo and Michelle, and, I think, Michelle Stephenson, and, you know, they've been such a wonderful film school for me, not only because I was there as a cinematographer, or sometimes as a PA, or whatever, but when we were on site, on sets or on shoots, there was never this, you just do that. It was always a, you're in here with us in the fight. And it made me feel present, it made me feel wanted and accepted in this documentary world. I wish everybody could go and PA for them or shoot for them or do that because just having - and I've tried to do that for people who come on to my crews as well. I'm never like, well, you're just that, or, you're just that. I'm like, we're all this and we're telling a collective story. Because your POV matters. And I think that, you know, we need a lot more people like Joe and Michelle, like Geeta, like Sam Pollard.
Matthew Sherwood 41:42
Right.
Rudy Valdez 41:43
You know, doing that, and letting people know that, in the end, even though, you know, there's awards, and there's all these other things, it's not a competition, it's a collective consciousness. And it's the ability to say, as Sam was saying, I shouldn't be telling every story.
Matthew Sherwood 41:59
Right.
Rudy Valdez 42:00
You know, that's the wrong answer to all of this. We should all be telling stories.
Matthew Sherwood 42:05
Well, we kept rolling. I mean, we've kept talking. So, if you don't mind...
Rudy Valdez 42:10
As long as I don't sound like I'm disparaging Brett Morgan, because I'm not. I just don't want to; like, I don't want to...
Matthew Sherwood 42:16
No, I don't think - no, I think it - and just to be said, I mean, that's the one we get the most feedback from in terms of - I mean, I thought you were gonna say - I mean, I don't think you're, you know, you're - not many people would almost kill themselves in making a film, which is what he almost did, in making the Bowie doc. You know, but no, I don't think you were disparaging anything. I think it's, as you say, POV. It's a different, you know, there are different perspectives on things.
Rudy Valdez 42:51
Yes.
Matthew Sherwood 42:51
So, no, I think it's this funny thing, because this whole Golden Age - what is a Golden Age, you know, who defines it's a Golden Age, but I mean, you have defined it in terms of what it has been, but - I mean, I'll just say, too, we are - maybe I shouldn't even share this from my standpoint, but we are finding it harder and harder to get, you know, it seems like the pipeline of docs has slowed a little bit, is what we're kind of noticing,
Rudy Valdez 43:24 (44:08)
You know, what's crazy, is, I think part of this has been, be careful what you wish for, because it's - as a documentary filmmaker, you know, I remember when - you know, I was a teacher, I was a writer, an actor, all those things, and I decided to quit everything and go into documentary film, because I had a story that I had to tell. And I wanted to figure that out. And I remember, I was met with nothing, but like, especially my family and friends were like, Go. Do what you're going to do. That's been the story of my life, of, like, when they see I'm going to do something, I'm going to go out and I'm gonna give everything I can. And then I had a friend who is more on the, like, Hollywood side of things and had seen a lot and he was like, So, you're gonna go from the steady paycheck, this other thing, to an industry that's very hard to make a living at. And then within that industry, you're going into a sub-category of that industry where you almost cannot make any money, which is documentary film. And, you know, I think the hope was always like, there will be a way to carve out a career and do this thing. And I did that by being an editor, by being a producer, by being a sound mixer, by being a camera operator, doing everything I could to pay the bills and stay afloat. And then you always wish, like, I want to continue to make money and make a living. And then all of a sudden, this Golden Age happens. All of these projects are being made, then the streaming wars happen. And all of a sudden, there's all of this - there's Netflix, there's Hulu, there's Disney Plus, there's ESPN Plus, there's CNN Plus, there's all these things, and they see this ability to tighten and further explore documentary. And I think, as grateful as I am, and I'm certainly a part of it, I've made series, I've made all the streams, it changes the way we make things at times. You know, as we were saying earlier, there's the ten part series, there's the six part series, there's the - you know, and oftentimes those things are discussed before we even know what the story is.
Matthew Sherwood 45:26
Right.
Rudy Valdez 45:26
It's like, I've been asked to do - I was asked to do a project one time, and they were like, We think it's an eight part series. And I go, Oh, okay, okay. And they're like, What did you see it as, and I was like, I don't know, a short? [...] sort of being a little cheeky with them, but then, like, let's figure out what the story is, before we say, it's eight parts, you know. But I think that that's also changed, you know, it's occupying a lot of documentary filmmakers' times and working on these series, so there are less features being made, there are less, you know, things being made - again, I'm always trying to go back, even with Carlos, of that feeling of making my first film, where I'm just in there with a camera, by myself. It's hard to do that when you have a budget, and you have producers, and you have a production company and a network, you know, saying, What are you making? What are you making? What are you making? You know, I made my first film over the course of ten years, you know, nobody would ever let me do that, you know, in any - if I was like, I had this idea, it's gonna take me a decade to make, just give me some money, they'd be like, Get out. Rudy's finally lost it, get out of here. So, I long sometimes for those moments, and I'm always working on passion projects, because I want to just go and make stuff. But it's very difficult, you know - very grateful and very difficult in wanting to be all of those things and tell honest stories, and also having to, you know, my kids want to eat almost every day, so I have to keep making money as well. So, it's just like finding that happy medium of all those things.
Matthew Sherwood 47:02
Well, I wish you luck. And just to say again, it's been a pleasure talking with you, Rudy.
Rudy Valdez 47:09
Likewise, likewise.
Matthew Sherwood 47:09
Love to have you on again, and we will sign off this time. We're gonna say, we've been talking with Rudy Valdez, the Emmy award-winning producer and director of Carlos. Premiered at Tribeca, and it definitely will be streaming somewhere soon. So, do look for it, and I highly recommend it.
Matthew Sherwood 47:34
Thanks again for joining us on Factual America. A big shout out to everyone at Innersound Audio in York, England for their great studio and fine editing and production skills. A big thanks to Amy Ord, our podcast manager, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show, and that everything otherwise runs smoothly. Finally, a big thanks to you our listeners. Please keep sending us feedback and episode ideas, whether it is on YouTube, social media, or directly by email. And please also remember to like us and share us with your friends and family, wherever you happen to listen or watch podcasts. This is Factual America, signing off.
Factual America Outro 48:15
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